djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2011 18:37:46 GMT -5
Of course they are, that is my main point, that is why I think the "unlimited Emergency Room" crack is hilarious. Does he want to bring back Hitler's Black Marias? Sick people need emergency rooms, not healthy ones. You would think aging, getting ill or being injured were mortal sins. Now, honestly do you think there is any danger of that happening. Do you imagine that in a world where the hospitals are closing entirely, you will get your own Jeeves in medical whites? And for free? Let me tell you what is reality in the good ole USA. I am paying $521 a month for COBRA, and that is the Group plan and that is the cheap one. When my COBRA runs out, I will be lucky to find an individual plan that will cover me at any price. I am out of work and paying the equivalent of nearly a second rent. Sounds like the lap of luxury to me. in your spare time, please, whatever you do, don't look into what your situation would look like if you were living in France. it will make you want to riot.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2011 18:39:20 GMT -5
Thanks for your kind thought. Personally, I half-hope everyone stays ignorant of these facts, at least by personal experience. That would mean they were hail and hearty and living well. i don't think anyone deserves to be a cautionary tale, toughtimes. your situation was likely not of your own making, and you have my sympathy. it is too bad that people can't look past their current circumstances to yours, and i certainly appreciate you having the guts to post them.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 30, 2011 18:49:22 GMT -5
I have traveled and experienced other systems too. In 1964 I traveled with my pop to visit Irish relatives in the Midlands. At that time, smallpox vaccinations were still required and I had a bad reaction to one. I got the best and the most extensive care...for free. Now mind, you, Ireland has never been known as a rich country. I tend to discuss things from my personal experience, not because I want to be an egotistical bore, but because I have a strong respect for the concrete over the theoretical. Nothing can change minds like a personal experience. Then too, I think but media and politicians often lie like a rug to us and we accept it because it conforms to what we already believe. by the same token it is hard to listen to people who have had NO experience talking as if they did. hard isn't the right word. supremely annoying is closer.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Aug 1, 2011 13:57:29 GMT -5
I have traveled and experienced other systems too. In 1964 I traveled with my pop to visit Irish relatives in the Midlands. At that time, smallpox vaccinations were still required and I had a bad reaction to one. I got the best and the most extensive care...for free. Now mind, you, Ireland has never been known as a rich country. I tend to discuss things from my personal experience, not because I want to be an egotistical bore, but because I have a strong respect for the concrete over the theoretical. Nothing can change minds like a personal experience. Then too, I think but media and politicians often lie like a rug to us and we accept it because it conforms to what we already believe. It's never been know to be heavily populated either...especially in the past. Maybe Mexico has it a little easier considering millions of its citizens are crowding OUR hospitals instead of theirs?? One American citizen in their hospital versus millions of Mexican citizens in ours...yes, such a comparison! And those other more socialist countries in Europe are all going to be in deep shit in the coming decades...they may look like their boats are all afloat right now, but the leaks are starting to show (Ireland, Greece, Spain, etc). And one by one they will start to falter as their higher debt to GDP ratio smothers them. What you are seeing is that these so-called successful socialist nations were only kept afloat because of America's capitalism. As America starts to trim back its spending these nations will hit the floor - and then watch what happens. If you think rioting over having extra years of work before retirement and reducde benefits was bad, just wait until their governments start scrapping those healthcare and pension benefits...
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 14:12:01 GMT -5
"waited in "Emergency" for over an hour one night to see a doctor. i had a torn achilles tendon. that was in my home town. my deductible was $3,000.
while traveling in Mexico, one of our party got violently ill. we went to the local clinic, where a doctor saw her within 5 minutes, gave her a $10 prescription. she paid $20 for the visit."
A torn achilles tedon is not that much of an emergency....not when you have people coming in with sucking chest wounds, major trauma or heart attacks. Waiting won't kill you. As far as the Mexican clinic is concerned...of couse you waltzed in and out. It's a clinic. They don't have seventeen screaming ambulances pulling up every five minutes. You can't compare the two.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 1, 2011 14:12:30 GMT -5
Not only that, but if you DO have Medicaid and great aunt Annie drops off the vine leaving you a potful of cash, you are expected to pay Uncle Sugar back. Why do you think so many people support Healthcare Reform. Because they want to spend my money to save their pathetic lives rather than spend their own handout from their dead Aunt Annie, of course. Next question.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 1, 2011 14:26:11 GMT -5
I have traveled and experienced other systems too. In 1964 I traveled with my pop to visit Irish relatives in the Midlands. At that time, smallpox vaccinations were still required and I had a bad reaction to one. I got the best and the most extensive care...for free. And casinos give free drinks to people while they are gambling too. This is the whole problem with socialized medicine, IMHO. People actually believe that it is free because they do not have to pay for it...directly. Anybody that has ever been to an all you can eat buffet restaurant knows the amount of waste and abuse by the customers. Hell, why not...AYCE means AYCE, right? Why do you think you're eating the cheapest crap they can buy and still pass off as food?
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 1, 2011 14:40:57 GMT -5
Even if they want to, they won't be able to. Medicaid does require repayment when someone comes into cash. That is not commonly known. I find your comment about healthcare reform deeply puzzling since one requirement of Obamacare is that everyone purchase health insurance at their own expense or pay a 6K fine. I cannot imagine how that squares with your vision of grasping people trying to siphon money out of your wallet. Mandating the insurance company provide coverage for high risk customers at "reasonable rates" simply means even more is siphoned out to cover those expected loses. The problem they also see in MA with Romneycare is the growing number of people that play the system....pay the relatively small fine until they actually need the insurance coverage and then sign up. Your own COBRA premium is more than the fine and unfortunately, to many people would take the cheaper route further priming that siphon.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 1, 2011 14:56:11 GMT -5
"This is the whole problem with socialized medicine, IMHO. People actually believe that it is free because they do not have to pay for it...directly."
We have socialized medicine here. Believe me, nobody thinks it's free.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 1, 2011 15:20:00 GMT -5
That Without coverage part is the sticker since a bad medical emergency can mean a 100K bill. Don't kid yourself tough...there is no sticker. For those without means and no ongoing medical issues such as asthma, diabetes, etc... it could be more costly to purchase insurance. For that bad emergency, they have the ER just like they do now. ER abuse will never go away. If its something like cancer, some will wait 'til they are diagnosed, then purchase insurance. They can't be refused.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 15:46:00 GMT -5
A lot of people on medicaid don't have a choice about using the ER - the remittances are so low that many primary care docs won't see them or there is a very long wait.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2011 15:57:20 GMT -5
toughtimes - the governor of Oregon used to be an emergency room doctor. They are trying to overhaul the state medicaid plan into coordinated care clinics. Gov. John Kitzhaber wants to streamline all that – and build a better, less-costly health plan in the process. If his plan prevails in the Legislature, Dickerson will get all her care from a single team called a coordinated care organization. Her physician, eye doctor, dentist, nutritionist and therapist will be on the same team. They will focus on keeping her healthy rather than waiting until she's sick.
The team will operate with a lump sum of state money to spend as it chooses. And it will focus on patients like Dickerson whose multiple health problems could need costly hospital care if not controlled.
Such coordinated care forms the core of a health reform bill to reduce costs, improve quality and simplify health care. The rest of the article is here: www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2011/04/gov_john_kitzhaber_wants_to_gi.htmlIt's a pretty exciting concept.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Aug 1, 2011 16:29:54 GMT -5
Even if they want to, they won't be able to. Medicaid does require repayment when someone comes into cash. That is not commonly known. I find your comment about healthcare reform deeply puzzling since one requirement of Obamacare is that everyone purchase health insurance at their own expense or pay a 6K fine. I cannot imagine how that squares with your vision of grasping people trying to siphon money out of your wallet. Considering half of the populace pays zero federal taxes, I imagine many people will line up to get their insurance subsidized (i.e. siphoning off other people's money to pay for their premiums) and will most likely be able to do just that. if not, it won't be long before the Dems produce legislation to allow them to...
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Aug 1, 2011 17:26:55 GMT -5
Even if they want to, they won't be able to. Medicaid does require repayment when someone comes into cash. That is not commonly known. I find your comment about healthcare reform deeply puzzling since one requirement of Obamacare is that everyone purchase health insurance at their own expense or pay a 6K fine. I cannot imagine how that squares with your vision of grasping people trying to siphon money out of your wallet. Considering half of the populace pays zero federal taxes, I imagine many people will line up to get their insurance subsidized (i.e. siphoning off other people's money to pay for their premiums) and will most likely be able to do just that. if not, it won't be long before the Dems produce legislation to allow them to... First - only 10% pay zero federal taxes. 50% pay no federal INCOME taxes. Big difference. Second - maybe you should do some research regarding the bill since you clearly don't know how it is or isn't subsidizing premiums & are just throwing words around.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Aug 2, 2011 8:36:59 GMT -5
This fantasy-land thinking is not only dangerous for the ill-informed "conservatives" who spout off, but also for many ignorant fools who think Uncle Sugar will provide only to be informed to the contrary. If you have any savings or income, you had better buy that insurance. Sorry to see you missed my point. There is a lot of evidence to back up what I'm saying if you care to search for it. We see the problems I'm talking about in Romneycare. "Every uninsured citizen in Massachusetts will soon have affordable health insurance and the costs of health care will be reduced." said Governor Romney. Unfortunately neither has happened. Before RomneyCare was enacted, estimates of the number of uninsured in Massachusetts ranged from 372,000 to 618,000. Under the new program, about 219,000 previously uninsured residents have signed up for insurance. Of these, 133,000 are receiving subsidized coverage, proving once again that people are all too happy to accept something "for free," and let others pay the bill. That is in addition to 56,000 people who have been signed up for Medicaid. The bigger the subsidy, the faster people are signing up. Of the 133,000 people who have signed up for insurance since the plan was implemented, slightly more than half have received totally free coverage. According to insurance industry insiders, the plans are too costly for the target market, and the potential customers- largely younger, healthy men-have resisted buying them. Those who have signed up have been disproportionately older and less healthy. This should come as no surprise since Massachusetts maintains a modified form of community rating, which forces younger and healthier individuals to pay higher premiums in order to subsidize premiums for the old and sick. www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v30n1/cpr30n1-1.htmlConsequently, the Massachusetts system experiences severe and debilitating “churn,” as those exempted individuals (and others who simply choose to pay the fine) sign up for health insurance a few weeks before they need a major procedure and then drop it after a few months. The Boston Globe reported that “In 2009 alone, 936 people signed up for coverage with Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Massachusetts for three months or less and ran up claims of more than $1,000 per month while in the plan.” Enforcement of the individual mandate “didn’t work as planned,” the Globe reported, and “consumers who work for small businesses have ended up shouldering a much larger burden.” www.nationalreview.com/articles/229581/problem-romneycare/stephen-spruiell#Well, the returns are rolling in, and a useful case study comes from the community-based health plan Harvard-Pilgrim. CEO Charlie Baker reports that his company has seen an "astonishing" uptick in people buying coverage for a few months at a time, running up high medical bills, and then dumping the policy after treatment is completed and paid for. Harvard-Pilgrim estimates that between April 2008 and March 2009, about 40% of its new enrollees stayed with it for fewer than five months and on average incurred about $2,400 per person in monthly medical expenses. That's about 600% higher than Harvard-Pilgrim would have otherwise expected. newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2009/07/12/wsj-romneycares-failures-ma-not-widely-known-i-wonder-why#ixzz1TsbpK2fvBut, if you'd rather, go ahead and keep believing it will be different this time. ETA: Don't think I'm trying to make light of your situation toughtimes...I'm not. I'm simply saying, there is plenty of evidence out there to show that people will take advantage of the system. Those people will end up costing those of us that do not. It really will be no different that what we have now. Sure there are some good aspects of this HC bill, but overall, I'm not seeing this as much of a solution to the problems with our health care system.
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Aug 2, 2011 9:31:00 GMT -5
Many poor people "subsidize" the rich too. For example, my blue-collar Astoria, Queens neighborhood is the power generation nexus for the entire city of New York. It, and the neighborhood of the South Bronx due West is called, "Asthma Alley." Consolidated Edison has repeatedly closed down power generation plants in more elegant areas of the city while attempting to cram more here. It is an income thing. Here's a thought, if you want electricity, you can choke. Why should other people have additional troubles for your electricity? Many of the things that help wealthier people are disproportionately sited near the homes of the poor and working class. Perhaps we should demand that the rich stop battening on US. Most likely they moved to those neighborhoods because the PROPERTY TAXES ARE CHEAPER...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 11:02:43 GMT -5
White House says Republicans want to steal X-Mas
You know, on the face of the title of this thread it's funny as hell. The White House is claiming that Republicans are trying to take the largest money making holiday away from business. Last I heard most stores (or big stores at least) make between 40 & 60 percent of all the money they make per year on Christmas. So it comes down to the democrats are saying that the republicans are anti business. Interesting statement.
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