Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Jul 21, 2011 9:24:40 GMT -5
No. It is not an issue for me that others in this country may not be as well off as I claim to be.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 21, 2011 9:32:02 GMT -5
No. It is not an issue for me that others in this country may not be as well off as I claim to be. Yea right if you say so!!
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Driftr
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Post by Driftr on Jul 21, 2011 10:06:12 GMT -5
No. It is not an issue for me that others in this country may not be as well off as I claim to be. Yea right if you say so!! What leads you to believe that I have an issue with others in this country that may not be as well off as I claim to be? Actually, if you could point me to the post I've made here where I claim to be more well off than anyone, that'd really help me to understand where you're coming from.
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The Virginian
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Post by The Virginian on Jul 21, 2011 10:14:42 GMT -5
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jkapp
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Post by jkapp on Jul 21, 2011 10:46:44 GMT -5
I say, call his bluff. Shut it down. It will not happen. I hope the Tea Party members in Congress stand their ground. That is why they were elected. The sooner the Democrats understand this the sooner we will solve this mess. i don't understand why it is so important that this happens in July of 2011, amidst a very fragile economic recovery. i mean, could there possibly be a worse time? If not us, who? If not now, when? There will always be excuses NOT to make cuts, and we have probably heard most if not all of them over the past decades. It needs to be done...it needed to be done years ago...now is as good a time as any. Sacrifice does not come without discomfort or even pain - if we TRULY care about our kids' futures (as many seem to at least CLAIM to) then this is a sacrifice we will need to bear - a sacrifice past generations (who themselves wished a better future for their children) refused to make and instead left us their heaping piles of economic feces to clean up. What a great plan...$500B in vague deficit savings with an even more vague "plan" to cut another $3+ Trillion from "somewhere." So its not even a "vote to see what's in it" it's a "vote and we'll figure it out later." Pardon me if I'm a bit skeptical of such a "plan" and their desire to actually cut anything once its been voted on.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 21, 2011 11:39:29 GMT -5
We have heard all these plans before about saving and cutting later. problem is they never happen.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 21, 2011 11:51:45 GMT -5
i don't understand why it is so important that this happens in July of 2011, amidst a very fragile economic recovery. i mean, could there possibly be a worse time? If not us, who? If not now, when? i think we should PLAN for getting us out of this, then EXECUTE the plan. simply lopping off 10% of GDP is NOT going to help us recover right now.
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jul 21, 2011 12:46:17 GMT -5
I didn't attribute any "tactic" to Alinsky. Then if I misunderstood your post, please accept my apologies.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 21, 2011 18:59:56 GMT -5
I say, call his bluff. Shut it down. It will not happen. I hope the Tea Party members in Congress stand their ground. That is why they were elected. The sooner the Democrats understand this the sooner we will solve this mess. After having all the dire possibilities posted here by so many, unless one really belives none can happen, that is not true, but say they can, and you still feel that way? Unbelivable . Dezi, we have had budget shutdowns before. Much adu about nothing. The bond debt will be paid, seniors will get their SS checks. Medicaid obligations will be met. I sincerely doubt any downgrades on our debt obligations as long as payments are made Now some leftwing Universities and local community organizer managers might not get some of their grant money in a timely fashion, but that is what has to be stopped anyway. We elected the new members to send the message, enough is enough, and the buck stops here and now Bring it on..... and please use something other than "unbelivable" in your response.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 21, 2011 19:18:21 GMT -5
We have heard all these plans before about saving and cutting later. problem is they never happen. Yea but this time the American Public is demanding something be done about the National Debt even Joe Six Pack is getting riled up about debt reduction since he has to cut back to only one six pack of Budweiser over the weekends.....according to my highly unreliable sources of course..
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 21, 2011 19:22:54 GMT -5
We have heard all these plans before about saving and cutting later. problem is they never happen. Yea but this time the American Public is demanding something be done about the National Debt even Joe Six Pack is getting riled up about debt reduction since he has to cut back to only one six pack of Budweiser over the weekends.....according to my highly unreliable sources of course.. Budweiser is no longer an American company. It is verboten in my home. Mini breweries are now my only permissable source. Better beer to boot!
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 21, 2011 20:10:50 GMT -5
Yea but this time the American Public is demanding something be done about the National Debt even Joe Six Pack is getting riled up about debt reduction since he has to cut back to only one six pack of Budweiser over the weekends.....according to my highly unreliable sources of course.. Budweiser is no longer an American company. It is verboten in my home. Mini breweries are now my only permissible source. Better beer to boot! Funny story but true...we were asked by a General if there was anything he could do for us. So one of the guys said "Yes Sir can you get us a few cases of Coors Beer?"....and a few weeks later a helicopter landed and the crew dropped off a few cases of Coors. however the beer was not refrigerated and went bad and had a stale taste, so after we all drank it and got sick to our stomachs it was the last time many of the guys ever drank Coors again..
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 21, 2011 21:24:03 GMT -5
Budweiser is no longer an American company. It is verboten in my home. Mini breweries are now my only permissible source. Better beer to boot! Funny story but true...we were asked by a General if there was anything he could do for us. So one of the guys said "Yes Sir can you get us a few cases of Coors Beer?"....and a few weeks later a helicopter landed and the crew dropped off a few cases of Coors. however the beer was not refrigerated and went bad and had a stale taste, so after we all drank it and got sick to our stomachs it was the last time many of the guys ever drank Coors again.. Back in the day, in Vietnam, Budweiser and Carling Black Label were $3.00 a case warm at the px. Pabst Bue Ribbon, Schlitz, Hamms, were low tier at $2.40 a case same as Pepsi and Coca Cola. I had a small refrigerator in our barracks, college size. Nothing but Budweiser and Coca Cola in it. Kept a heavy chain and padlock on it, but there was always someone with bolt cutters around...... Even so, there was always money left in the fridge from the raid. After three raids, I just posted a sign saying my ration card limited my purchases, so if product gets removed, please refill. I wound up with so much extra product after that, never had to worry about using up my ration card, just had to maintain a full fridge. Worked out well for many in the platoon. I'm pretty sure Schlitz was there, maybe my memory is wrong on that one.....
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 21, 2011 23:01:40 GMT -5
Yep it took a lot of beer to get those field rations to go down. Sometimes the beer seemed a bit green and those field rations went straight through in a hurry. Gross. ;D
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 22, 2011 10:16:16 GMT -5
Thread summary.
Subject: Obama cave-in on debt ceiling.
Pros: 1. Alinsky 2. Stale beer
Cons: 1. Snide snips 2. Shallow dismissals
Maybe we should go back to Death Panel threads. Or gay Republican threads. Maybe gay Republican Death Panels?
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 22, 2011 10:30:39 GMT -5
Thread summary. Subject: Obama cave-in on debt ceiling. Pros: 1. Alinsky 2. Stale beer Cons: 1. Snide snips 2. Shallow dismissals Maybe we should go back to Death Panel threads. Or gay Republican threads. Maybe gay Republican Death Panels? Nah. A couple of good birther threads is all we need......
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 22, 2011 10:39:16 GMT -5
Amen. Even though it'd suck a little for me & mine during our trip to DC in a couple weeks, I can take them back there some other time if the Govt is shut down when we're there. Yea ok but others in this country may not be as well off as you claim to be...or is that an issue for you??? I personally would NOT like to see our government shutdown or default on it's obligations to pay it's bills.....but then again I happen to believe in a Democratic Government and not a socialistic state which were are leaning toward unless a debt reduction bill is passed.. Why? Because I have two grand kids who deserve better than this financial mess being passed on them PI- jooc- how did you feel when Reagan raised the national debt from 1/3 of GDP to over 1/2 of GDP? how did you feel when Bush raised the national debt from 5/8ths of GDP to 5/6ths of GDP?
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 22, 2011 10:39:24 GMT -5
Just remember we had a Democratic Controlled Congress along with Obama during his first year in office...he never told the American people how tough things were and rather just used his political spin....and he just pushed his economic policies that didn't relate to jobs ... So now after 2 and 1/2 years if you think Obama has been a successful president and we hare nothing to worry about with him at the helm of out ship of state....OK but I think you might be deceiving yourself or not really studying the issue we face as a nation today...IMHO
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 22, 2011 10:46:24 GMT -5
]
PI- jooc- how did you feel when Reagan raised the national debt from 1/3 of GDP to over 1/2 of GDP? how did you feel when Bush raised the national debt from 1/2 of GDP to 5/6ths of GDP?[/quote][/color]
At the time I was not into politics at all but do recall that Regan increased spending for defense and he reinstated a Defense Dept research program that I was assigned to.
I really had absolutely no interest in politics until @ 2002 when I became a member of the MSN P&M Message board and liked to read all of the comments by the Moderator BobnDC who claimed he was a member of congress for 22 years...
I now have some interest in politics since Obama became our president because I never liked or trusted this guy for obvious reasons
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 22, 2011 10:52:13 GMT -5
] PI- jooc- how did you feel when Reagan raised the national debt from 1/3 of GDP to over 1/2 of GDP? how did you feel when Bush raised the national debt from 1/2 of GDP to 5/6ths of GDP?[/color] At the time I was not into politics at all but do recall that Regan increased spending for defense and he reinstated a Defense Dept research program that I was assigned to. I really had absolutely no interest in politics until @ 2002 when I became a member of the MSN P&M Message board and liked to read all of the comments by the Moderator BobnDC who claimed he was a member of congress for 22 years... I now have some interest in politics since Obama became our president because I never liked or trusted this guy for obvious reasons[/quote] ok, thanks. i was a member of that board as well, starting in 2004.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 22, 2011 11:23:08 GMT -5
Those on the far left of the Democratic Party do indeed think Obama has caved and not compromised....they don't want to touch Social Security or Medicare and don't want out tax system overhauled to prevent tax loopholes but rather they want the rich to pay more taxes even though the upper 10% of income earners pay their fair share of taxes or @50% or the tax revenue.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 22, 2011 23:20:09 GMT -5
OK, Value. I read your reply #45. Tell us.
Just where the hell WERE you born, huh? Huh? Can ya prove it?
... your accent sounds like an Andorran to me ...
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 23, 2011 8:39:10 GMT -5
Did Obama Cave In Again???
This is probably a non starter now since Boehner announced he will try to work with his congressional colleagues on both sides of the aisle and not with the President anymore. Boehner doesn't even return the President's phone calls or emails??
Obama wants Boehner to act like a leader?? I doubt that Boehner can lead the conservative far right wing of the Republican Party anywhere since they want to see our government default. And then they will blame Obama until the 2012 elections as part of their strategy to have Obama be a one term president like Jimmy Carter IMHO
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Jul 23, 2011 9:23:34 GMT -5
Well. It's about to hit the fan. Apparently, Obama didn't cave enough. It looks like there's a downgrade in our future whether a deal is reached or not. But some deal would beat nothing. Obama is leading us into the loss of our AAA rating, but the Democratic Congress has already led us into two consecutive years of no budget at all. The truth is that a few far-right Republicans can't sink the ship of state, but, of course, the current Democrat leadership will try to convince the voters that that is the case. It does look more like a one term Obama Presidency, but the damage will have been done, so we'll all suffer the consequences for the failure of our leadership. My take: The far-right Republicans are pushing unrealistic goals, but are balanced by far-left Democrats who are equally unrealistic. I think both have taken flights of fantasy in the programs they push, but I think the far-left started the slide, the moderates were marginalized and extremists have weakened the moderate middle sufficiently to bring down the potential for real prosperity in the US in the future. I watched Ron Paul [allegedly one of the far right extremists] being interviewed and even he backed off the dissolution of the Fed, stating that he'd simply allow competition should he be elected President. Bottom line is I think, that the socialist revolutionaries in the Democratic Party have marginalized the moderate wing of their party so that the party is, effectively, extremist ~ and has stimulated a corresponding move to the right in the Republican Party so that agreement cannot be reached, victory being reduced to destruction of the opposition.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 23, 2011 9:46:03 GMT -5
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 23, 2011 11:46:32 GMT -5
Amen. Even though it'd suck a little for me & mine during our trip to DC in a couple weeks, I can take them back there some other time if the Govt is shut down when we're there. Yea ok but others in this country may not be as well off as you claim to be...or is that an issue for you??? I personally would NOT like to see our government shutdown or default on it's obligations to pay it's bills.....but then again I happen to believe in a Democratic Government and not a socialistic state which were are leaning toward unless a debt reduction bill is passed.. Why? Because I have two grand kids who deserve better than this financial mess being passed on them i know you don't believe this PI, but imo NEITHER DOES OBAMA. he doesn't talk socialist talk any more than any other president, imo. he is not an idealist at all. he is a pragmatist. i actually trust pragmatism far more. you might never get what you want, but you will not see the whole thing taken apart, tho. we are not going to default. we are going to have a deal.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 23, 2011 15:50:35 GMT -5
This debt crisis has brought a lot of attention on our political leaders in Washington DC and I doubt that anyone is pleased with what they have have seen for the past few weeks. Republicans aligned with Grover Norquist. Obama blaming Boehner for not being able to compromise, Obama caving into spending cuts that his liberal base abhors. Nancy Pelosi taking cheap shots at Boehner...To call this whole mess an example of constitutional government at it's worse would be being too kind..IMHO.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2011 13:52:01 GMT -5
This debt crisis has brought a lot of attention on our political leaders in Washington DC and I doubt that anyone is pleased with what they have have seen for the past few weeks. Republicans aligned with Grover Norquist. Obama blaming Boehner for not being able to compromise, Obama caving into spending cuts that his liberal base abhors. Nancy Pelosi taking cheap shots at Boehner...To call this whole mess an example of constitutional government at it's worse would be being too kind..IMHO. this all starts with appealing to the selfish interests of individuals rather than the greater interests of the nation. where it stops....nobody knows.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Jul 24, 2011 16:00:10 GMT -5
Conservative populists today are holding fast on the unfairness of unduly progressive income taxes, including the upper tax bracket. As these populists are not predominantly rich people, that can hardly be seen as selfish.
Further, there is the essay, "The Virtue of Selfishness" which argues that individuals successfully pursuing their own self interest have historically created, though perhaps indirectly, enormous benefits to the poor, via the concept of "a rising tide lifts all ships".
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 24, 2011 16:59:25 GMT -5
Conservative populists today are holding fast on the unfairness of unduly progressive income taxes, including the upper tax bracket. As these populists are not predominantly rich people, that can hardly be seen as selfish. Further, there is the essay, "The Virtue of Selfishness" which argues that individuals successfully pursuing their own self interest have historically created, though perhaps indirectly, enormous benefits to the poor, via the concept of "a rising tide lifts all ships". do you believe as Rand did that altruism is evil?
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