fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 20, 2011 15:23:49 GMT -5
of course it is not selfish to want to keep what you have earned. Of course it isn't selfish to do that. What is selfish is to not be willing to pay for your share of the common expenses of the society you live in. What those expenses should be and what is your share is the question. And by voting for someone who is going to lower taxes, would be my answer, the expenses should be lower. There are very few common expenses of society that needs to be provided by government, some people think there are none. I feel there are some.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 15:24:50 GMT -5
It is selfish, but there are situations where there is nothing wrong with being selfish. Turns out I am selfish because I don't want to pay for ex's lawyer. Ex used to be called selfish because he didn't want to buy cigarettes for his friends everyday. I've been called selfish for not letting people borrow my car. There are times when you have to be selfish because no one is as interested in your needs more than you & you need to look out for yourself first. Are you trying to convince yourself or others that being selfish is good, because your not fooling me. If you think selfishness is good then I think delusions is the new in. Using the word need for anything other than to display the opposite of selfishness is complete non-sense. Selfish deals with want not need. I gotta admit - you completely lost me on this response. Care to rephrase that response or can someone else explain it to me. The only thing I can assume is that we are defining selfish differently & you are arguing semantics, which is why I don't really understand what you are saying.
|
|
fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 20, 2011 15:29:33 GMT -5
Are you trying to convince yourself or others that being selfish is good, because your not fooling me. If you think selfishness is good then I think delusions is the new in. Using the word need for anything other than to display the opposite of selfishness is complete non-sense. Selfish deals with want not need. I gotta admit - you completely lost me on this response. Care to rephrase that response or can someone else explain it to me. The only thing I can assume is that we are defining selfish differently & you are arguing semantics, which is why I don't really understand what you are saying. selfishness like fairness is usually in the eye of beholder. If I have earned something is it selfish to want to keep it? I say no. So not wanting to pay taxes wouldn't be selfish in itself. But would wanting to get services from 'government' without paying taxes be selfish or greedy?
|
|
reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
|
Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 20, 2011 15:41:07 GMT -5
I am curious, is it selfish of me to want to mow my yard so I can lay down on it?
|
|
|
Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 20, 2011 15:44:34 GMT -5
...I'd say it's selfish to mow your lawn at 5am... but feel free to lay on it at that time... you have my blessing...
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,479
|
Post by billisonboard on Jul 20, 2011 15:55:30 GMT -5
I am curious, is it selfish of me to want to mow my yard so I can lay down on it? I need more details. Actually doing the mowing and not just wanting to? Are you using a gas mower at 3 in the morning in an area with neighbors well within earshot? Are you going to be either clothed or inside a very tall fence when you lay down? Are there other family members who would be negatively impacted (e.g. using the baby's shoe money for gas for the mower)? Devil is always in the details.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 16:00:38 GMT -5
I gotta admit - you completely lost me on this response. Care to rephrase that response or can someone else explain it to me. The only thing I can assume is that we are defining selfish differently & you are arguing semantics, which is why I don't really understand what you are saying. selfishness like fairness is usually in the eye of beholder. If I have earned something is it selfish to want to keep it? I say no. I would call it selfish, but then I don't have a view that selfishness is a bad quality. Maybe that is where I differ from a lot of you, maybe you view the word selfish as an insult & something bad. Like I said, I think reason was just arguing semantics with me.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,135
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2011 16:04:32 GMT -5
Is it selfish of me to vote for someone that "claims" to be against tax increases, simply because I do not want my taxes to increase? That would mean less funding for schools and cuts to entitlement programs. Do you vote for your own special interest? vote? no. i vote for the candidate that i believe will be best suited to the task at hand. and i entrust that the candidate will use their best judgment in the situations as they arise, and make right decisions. i know. fucking idealist, right?
|
|
reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
|
Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 20, 2011 16:51:21 GMT -5
Is it selfish of me to vote for someone that "claims" to be against tax increases, simply because I do not want my taxes to increase? That would mean less funding for schools and cuts to entitlement programs. Do you vote for your own special interest? vote? no. i vote for the candidate that i believe will be best suited to the task at hand. and i entrust that the candidate will use their best judgment in the situations as they arise, and make right decisions. i know. fucking idealist, right? WITCH WITCH!!!! BURN DJ!!! WITCH WITCH!!!!
|
|
reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
|
Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 20, 2011 16:53:13 GMT -5
selfishness like fairness is usually in the eye of beholder. If I have earned something is it selfish to want to keep it? I say no. I would call it selfish, but then I don't have a view that selfishness is a bad quality. Maybe that is where I differ from a lot of you, maybe you view the word selfish as an insult & something bad. Like I said, I think reason was just arguing semantics with me. I don't know I always thought that selfishness is bad, just like I think murder is bad. If somebody thinks word murder as good, does it make murder good?
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jul 20, 2011 17:20:38 GMT -5
I would call it selfish, but then I don't have a view that selfishness is a bad quality. Maybe that is where I differ from a lot of you, maybe you view the word selfish as an insult & something bad. Like I said, I think reason was just arguing semantics with me. I don't know I always thought that selfishness is bad, just like I think murder is bad. If somebody thinks word murder as good, does it make murder good? And there is the semantics argument. I was taught a word is neither good nor bad, but the meaning & intentions behind the word might be good or bad or neither. I think we can all agree in general the act of murder is bad. Maybe most agree the meaning of selfish is in general bad. But, after spending years trying to take care of everyone but me, even at my own expense, I finally learned in therapy that it isn't bad to be selfish sometimes. I no longer view being selfish as bad, but as taking care of me & my needs first instead of spending all my energy caring for others. I don't see taking care of me as a bad thing because I spent too much time not taking care of me at all.
|
|
fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 20, 2011 17:35:19 GMT -5
I would call it selfish, but then I don't have a view that selfishness is a bad quality. Maybe that is where I differ from a lot of you, maybe you view the word selfish as an insult & something bad. Like I said, I think reason was just arguing semantics with me. I don't know I always thought that selfishness is bad, just like I think murder is bad. If somebody thinks word murder as good, does it make murder good? You can't really compare selfishness and murder;murder can fairly easily be defined objectively "killing someone with malice". Someone is alive you murder them, now they are dead, you have changed there state from living to dead. But selfishness is a lot more subjective . Selfishness,fairness are pretty useless words when talking about running a government.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,135
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2011 19:22:14 GMT -5
vote? no. i vote for the candidate that i believe will be best suited to the task at hand. and i entrust that the candidate will use their best judgment in the situations as they arise, and make right decisions. i know. fucking idealist, right? WITCH WITCH!!!! BURN DJ!!! WITCH WITCH!!!! bwahahahahaha
|
|
handyman2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 23:56:33 GMT -5
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by handyman2 on Jul 20, 2011 19:55:35 GMT -5
Selfisness or fairness does not really matter in our situation. Call it what you will but many freebees has to stop. Yes we need to help those who cannot help themselves but we have no business helping those who will not help themselves. We need to stop paying subsidies to farmers, oil companies, ethonol producers and other industrial entities etc. If they cannot make it on their own then let them get out of the way and let somebody else have that place who can. Charity is for the needy and them alone. not big shots and the just plain lazy.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,135
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 20, 2011 20:12:56 GMT -5
Selfisness or fairness does not really matter in our situation. Call it what you will but many freebees has to stop. Yes we need to help those who cannot help themselves but we have no business helping those who will not help themselves. We need to stop paying subsidies to farmers, oil companies, ethonol producers and other industrial entities etc. If they cannot make it on their own then let them get out of the way and let somebody else have that place who can. Charity is for the needy and them alone. not big shots and the just plain lazy. BOOYA! how do i do a KUDOS! ?
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Jul 21, 2011 9:32:20 GMT -5
I believe it's both selfish and short-sighted. So is just raising taxes to give government more money because the government mishandled the money they already took...or spent far more money than they took.
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Jul 21, 2011 9:38:19 GMT -5
How do you know what is good for the whole if you don't know what is good for the individual? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Like I said most people don't even know what is good for themselves, how can you even think they would know what is good for the whole? Look at the average obesity rate from 20 to 30% in the U.S. and you think people should know what is good for the whole, so that it in turn makes good for them? That logic is throwing me for a loop. As I said, reasonfreedom, I don't believe people are as dumb as you seem to think they are. Most obese people know it isn't good for them to be obese. They're just unwilling to make the sacrifices necessary to lose the weight. The reason my logic throws you for a loop is because we view people very differently. Actually you'll probably find people will blame anything and everything before they will take responsibility over their own poor choices. Playing the victim is just easier...
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 21, 2011 9:46:39 GMT -5
Selfisness or fairness does not really matter in our situation. Call it what you will but many freebees has to stop. Yes we need to help those who cannot help themselves but we have no business helping those who will not help themselves. We need to stop paying subsidies to farmers, oil companies, ethonol producers and other industrial entities etc. If they cannot make it on their own then let them get out of the way and let somebody else have that place who can. Charity is for the needy and them alone. not big shots and the just plain lazy. I can't imagine there are many thinking people who won't agree with that, handyman.
|
|
reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
|
Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 21, 2011 9:57:42 GMT -5
I don't know I always thought that selfishness is bad, just like I think murder is bad. If somebody thinks word murder as good, does it make murder good? And there is the semantics argument. I was taught a word is neither good nor bad, but the meaning & intentions behind the word might be good or bad or neither. I think we can all agree in general the act of murder is bad. Maybe most agree the meaning of selfish is in general bad. But, after spending years trying to take care of everyone but me, even at my own expense, I finally learned in therapy that it isn't bad to be selfish sometimes. I no longer view being selfish as bad, but as taking care of me & my needs first instead of spending all my energy caring for others. I don't see taking care of me as a bad thing because I spent too much time not taking care of me at all. Whats the point of having a dictionary, when everybody can have their own meanings?
|
|
reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
|
Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 21, 2011 10:01:15 GMT -5
I don't know I always thought that selfishness is bad, just like I think murder is bad. If somebody thinks word murder as good, does it make murder good? You can't really compare selfishness and murder;murder can fairly easily be defined objectively "killing someone with malice". Someone is alive you murder them, now they are dead, you have changed there state from living to dead. But selfishness is a lot more subjective . Selfishness,fairness are pretty useless words when talking about running a government. Yeah, it was kind of an extreme comparison, but selfishness can lead to murder.
|
|
Angel!
Senior Associate
Politics Admin
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:44:08 GMT -5
Posts: 10,722
|
Post by Angel! on Jul 21, 2011 10:31:28 GMT -5
And there is the semantics argument. I was taught a word is neither good nor bad, but the meaning & intentions behind the word might be good or bad or neither. I think we can all agree in general the act of murder is bad. Maybe most agree the meaning of selfish is in general bad. But, after spending years trying to take care of everyone but me, even at my own expense, I finally learned in therapy that it isn't bad to be selfish sometimes. I no longer view being selfish as bad, but as taking care of me & my needs first instead of spending all my energy caring for others. I don't see taking care of me as a bad thing because I spent too much time not taking care of me at all. Whats the point of having a dictionary, when everybody can have their own meanings? Dictionary definition of selfish:devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others. No where does it say selfish = bad. You are the one that believes selfish has a bad connotation. I don't feel that way & based on the actual definition, neither of us is wrong. Honestly, the same could be said of the word murder. Since it is the act of killing someone against the law, then for most people it has a negative connotation. But, perhaps for a few people it has a positive connotation - like all the crow lovers ;D
|
|
fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 21, 2011 12:36:38 GMT -5
Whats the point of having a dictionary, when everybody can have their own meanings? It is not really about the meaning, it is about whether it is objective or subjective.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,135
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 21, 2011 13:00:46 GMT -5
Whats the point of having a dictionary, when everybody can have their own meanings? It is not really about the meaning, it is about whether it is objective or subjective. moreover, dictionaries often define multiple meanings. if you are talking about something in a sense that is different than the one i am thinking, we may be arguing over something that is fundamentally a semantics issue, rather than the subject of the argument. i can give you a perfect example of this- and one that has recurred often in politics and on the board. people often call each other LIARS. however, that term, as i understand it, can ONLY be attributed to a person who KNOWINGLY tells a falsehood. moreover, the person has to BENEFIT from that lie for it to be truly reprehensible. or, even worse, when a person who is the subject of the lie is damaged by it. i have, however, seen this term used for people who UNKNOWINGLY REPEAT falsehoods. that is more correctly called "rumoring". it does NOT meet the standard of lying. you will note that the secondary charge of benefiting from it is also lessened if they don't know it is a lie. a tertiary argument in this case is whether they SHOULD know it or not. and that would very much depend on how easy it is to disprove the lie. in cases like these, i have found it better to establish what a person means by lying right off the bat. dictionaries are handy for that.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 13:23:13 GMT -5
people often call each other LIARS. however, that term, as i understand it, can ONLY be attributed to a person who KNOWINGLY tells a falsehood. moreover, the person has to BENEFIT from that lie for it to be truly reprehensible. or, even worse, when a person who is the subject of the lie is damaged by it. Personally, I loath liars. But, if DW ever asks "do these pants make my butt look big?", you know the answer I'll give regardless. I guess there's a little hypocrite in all of us.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jul 21, 2011 13:29:53 GMT -5
Do you mean to tell me, floridayankee, you wouldn't tell your wife the truth if the pants really DID make her butt look bigger? Shame on you! ;D
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 13:42:17 GMT -5
Do you mean to tell me, floridayankee, you wouldn't tell your wife the truth if the pants really DID make her butt look bigger? Shame on you! ;D Hell no. My mama raised ugly kids, not stupid.
|
|
reasonfreedom
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 8:50:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,722
|
Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 21, 2011 13:52:14 GMT -5
Do you mean to tell me, floridayankee, you wouldn't tell your wife the truth if the pants really DID make her butt look bigger? Shame on you! ;D I would tell her, but then I would say that is why I lover her. You don't have to lie, telling the truth is peferctly fine.
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Jul 21, 2011 15:10:11 GMT -5
I would tell her, but then I would say that is why I lover her. You don't have to lie, telling the truth is peferctly fine. But would telling her you love her because she has a big butt be the truth?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,135
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jul 21, 2011 15:29:06 GMT -5
I would tell her, but then I would say that is why I lover her. You don't have to lie, telling the truth is peferctly fine. But would telling her you love her because she has a big butt be the truth? this argument sounds like a death spiral to me. ;]
|
|
floridayankee
Junior Associate
If You Don't Stand Behind Our Troops, Feel Free to Stand in Front of Them.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:56:05 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by floridayankee on Jul 22, 2011 7:55:56 GMT -5
this argument sounds like a death spiral to me. ;] You think? Some questions should remain unasked because there simply isn't any good way to answer.
|
|