Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 7, 2011 0:27:11 GMT -5
The military has what I consider to be good training, it seems like we could do a better job at taking a little longer (4-6 months exclusively) in order to be better at hand to hand style combat.
I think it was on the show "Amazing Race" where they said the US military there does martial arts daily in Korea. It would make sense to me to make expand that idea across the military in order to make them even better. Doing it during Basic training, or right after would be a good place to catch everybody and give everybody a base to start out when they go to their new units.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,127
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 7, 2011 9:30:16 GMT -5
Politically_Incorrect12 - for those who might not know what MMA is an acronym for-does it mean Mixed Martial Arts?
Can you explain what is involved with mixed martial arts?
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jan 7, 2011 10:05:35 GMT -5
Should the military add MMA training to Basic? Not in basic but the Rangers, & Special Forces have a Martial Arts Training Program which is form of MMA in their advanced training.. Martial arts training in the military is similar to MMA.. Black Belt Status in Judo is voluntary training and many of the Rangers, and Special Forces have Black Belts that they acquired outside the military on their own Marine Corps Martial Arts One mind. Any weapon.Driven by the philosophy of “one mind, any weapon,” the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP) combines some of the most effective unarmed techniques from various martial arts with armed techniques designed for combat. Go to www.marines.com/?flashRedirect=true and do a search for Martial arts training which may give you the information about the Marines and their martial arts training And I believe Rachets or Bobosensie who are on active duty can expand to my comments....btw good question and I think it is something that the military is considering for the Army in their advanced training but not in basic.. because the basic training is highly regimented and adding MMA would require adding another few weeks to the schedule
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 10, 2011 9:11:35 GMT -5
Politically_Incorrect12 - for those who might not know what MMA is an acronym for-does it mean Mixed Martial Arts? Can you explain what is involved with mixed martial arts? Yes, MMA is Mixed Martial Arts. I had originally tried to type it out on the title and ran out of room. The mainstream understanding of MMA probably revolves primarily around Ultimate fighting or Cage Fighting.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 10, 2011 9:22:40 GMT -5
Thinking back to my time as a Yeoman in the US Navy, I don't feel that my tax dollars would be well used by having our current service members who will be doing the jobs that I did trained in Mixed Martial Arts.
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Jan 11, 2011 9:14:56 GMT -5
I think Krav Maga would be better then a generic MMA. MMA training is for sport, and relies on rules and regulations (i.e. no headbutting, eye gouging, groin attacks). Krav Maga is to kill, maim, or render immobile.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 11, 2011 11:17:27 GMT -5
I think Krav Maga would be better then a generic MMA. MMA training is for sport, and relies on rules and regulations (i.e. no headbutting, eye gouging, groin attacks). Krav Maga is to kill, maim, or render immobile. So this should be introduced to every recruit in basic training?
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 11, 2011 11:49:54 GMT -5
I think Krav Maga would be better then a generic MMA. MMA training is for sport, and relies on rules and regulations (i.e. no headbutting, eye gouging, groin attacks). Krav Maga is to kill, maim, or render immobile. No, cage fighting, Ultimate fighting, or whatever else you want to call it is based on rules, MMA itself is based on learning different types of martial arts in order to have the ability to fight in any situation. I am not really familiar with Krav Maga to have an opinion about it.
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Jan 11, 2011 16:07:22 GMT -5
Mixed Martial Arts was born from sport fighting, using a mixture of different martial arts in the ring.
Just learning different disciplines, doesn't really have a name.
Krav Maga puts several different types of martial arts together to create a specific fighting style.
Introduced, yes.
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jan 11, 2011 16:25:18 GMT -5
News Flash Army Basic Training Programs are pretty much set in stone so introducing MMA just doesn't make sense. Drill Sergeants are not all trained in MMA and have such a tough schedule adding any more tasks to the highly regimented basic training would mean other scheduled items would have to be dropped so I just don't see it happening..
|
|
handyman2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 23:56:33 GMT -5
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by handyman2 on Jan 11, 2011 18:07:12 GMT -5
As a part of basic training I would say no. A cook or those assigned to non-combat positions it would be a waste of time and money. For those in some special OPS catagory then yes any self defense training is good for them.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 11, 2011 18:47:07 GMT -5
[/quote]Introduced, yes.[/quote]Whoops- not the way to do a short quote. Sounds like a recipe to get someone seriously injured (and I am not talking about the other guy). Seems like something that you either need to learn well or just leave alone.
|
|
❤ mollymouser ❤
Senior Associate
Sarcasm is my Superpower
Crazy Cat Lady
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 16:09:58 GMT -5
Posts: 12,857
Today's Mood: Gen X ... so I'm sarcastic and annoyed
Location: Central California
Favorite Drink: Diet Mountain Dew
|
Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jan 11, 2011 20:39:01 GMT -5
Should the military add MMA training to Basic? Nope
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 11, 2011 23:11:19 GMT -5
Mixed Martial Arts was born from sport fighting, using a mixture of different martial arts in the ring. Just learning different disciplines, doesn't really have a name. Krav Maga puts several different types of martial arts together to create a specific fighting style. Introduced, yes. Actually Bruce Lee put together several different arts in coming out with Jeet Kune Do. MMA itself is a matter of being able to learn and use many different styles in a fighting situation.
|
|
handyman2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 23:56:33 GMT -5
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by handyman2 on Jan 11, 2011 23:27:27 GMT -5
Don't forget that MMA and I have seen it demonstrated is a hand to hand combat style. Now with a solder with a load of combat gear on his body would be at a distinct disadvantage and a situation in hand to hand combat they most likely would never be in. Now in a special infiltration unit where you may need to take out a sentry silently with a quick snap of the neck then hand to hand combat would be useful and by the way I think you will find already taught. Just my opinion. A combat solder does not want the enemy that close in the first place. But if so a trench knife works well right below the sternum.
|
|
The Home 6
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 21:24:57 GMT -5
Posts: 1,906
Location: Bourbon Country
Favorite Drink: Wine. With a wine chaser.
|
Post by The Home 6 on Jan 12, 2011 6:13:25 GMT -5
Sounds like a recipe to get someone seriously injured (and I am not talking about the other guy). Seems like something that you either need to learn well or just leave alone.
Indeed. In basic training, you have Joes getting broke just by doing a 2 mile run or a 10K ruck march. Adding in MMA could seriously injure people, and when it costs around $10,000 per troop in basic training, you kind of want to keep your invesntment around for a while. While also (of course) weeding out the undesirables. How I made it through, I'll never know. Although, 9 years ago and gone, we did learn very, VERY basic hand to hand combat moves in basic training. The Army later implemented Combat Training PT, which taught us more hand to hand stuff. And when I say 'us', I mean EVERYONE. Even us cooks had to learn it.
|
|
ChiTownVenture
Familiar Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 10:39:06 GMT -5
Posts: 648
|
Post by ChiTownVenture on Jan 12, 2011 10:07:24 GMT -5
Israeli defense soldiers are taught Krav Maga for about a week (a few hours a day). The Special forces are obviously taught a lot more.
A small dose of hand to hand combat, seems like it would be worthwhile for all recruits.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 12, 2011 10:21:59 GMT -5
As The Home 6 points out, a small dose of hand to hand is taught.
This is what I referred to as something you either need to learn well or leave alone. Walking into a situation thinking that you know how to "kill, maim, or render immobile" someone then failing to do so puts you in a position for some serious hurt.
|
|
fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 19, 2011 10:27:54 GMT -5
I would say no. Seems like a waste for basic training, special ops, maybe.
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 20, 2011 14:32:27 GMT -5
I would say no. Seems like a waste for basic training, special ops, maybe. It could be worth the investment to have a better trained military, especially since we are moving to more "close quarters" combat. It also might come in handy down the road if we ever are faced with another country's military where their troops are trained in martial arts.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,386
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 20, 2011 16:12:43 GMT -5
I would say no. Seems like a waste for basic training, special ops, maybe. It could be worth the investment to have a better trained military, especially since we are moving to more "close quarters" combat. It also might come in handy down the road if we ever are faced with another country's military where their troops are trained in martial arts.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jan 20, 2011 20:55:51 GMT -5
The question is in "Basic"..Basic is just that, "Basic"....no one I knew goes into combat from Basic....Army you have AIT..learn all the weapones of a company, and ot's still basic ..experience comes later..how to maneuver as a large force...as small fire teams, patrol, point and the basics of hand to hand...practice on their own, martial arts , on their own , which many would do over time, their time....spec operations I would believe would get into that in more detail, possible needed.
|
|
fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 20, 2011 22:06:29 GMT -5
I would say no. Seems like a waste for basic training, special ops, maybe. It could be worth the investment to have a better trained military, especially since we are moving to more "close quarters" combat. It also might come in handy down the road if we ever are faced with another country's military where their troops are trained in martial arts. If we are fighting hand to hand we have evidentially dropped the ball in some other training area.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jan 20, 2011 22:21:50 GMT -5
Like advance to the rear in the face of over whelming odd'?
|
|
Mad Dawg Wiccan
Administrator
Rest in Peace
Only Bites Whiners
Joined: Jan 12, 2011 20:40:24 GMT -5
Posts: 9,693
|
Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jan 22, 2011 17:14:44 GMT -5
No, I don't believe MMA training should be introduced to every recruit during Basic Training. I do believe more hand-to-hand combat training should be given to anybody going into a combat MOS, but I don't believe it should be MMA. MMA is a sport with rules, and the only rule of real life combat is to survive it. I would prefer the discipline by a true combat art without rules, like Shou Shu. I am a Shou Shu student, and things which are forbidden in sport arts (groin kicks, eye gouges, throat strikes, etc) are an integral part of the art for us.
|
|
deziloooooo
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 16:22:04 GMT -5
Posts: 10,723
|
Post by deziloooooo on Jan 22, 2011 19:52:11 GMT -5
No, I don't believe MMA training should be introduced to every recruit during Basic Training. I do believe more hand-to-hand combat training should be given to anybody going into a combat MOS, but I don't believe it should be MMA. MMA is a sport with rules, and the only rule of real life combat is to survive it. I would prefer the discipline by a true combat art without rules, like Shou Shu. I am a Shou Shu student, and things which are forbidden in sport arts (groin kicks, eye gouges, throat strikes, etc) are an integral part of the art for us. and unarmed military combat skills , the discipline you are speaking of, not familiar, Shou Shu , I would think as a voluntary class at bases that many of the combat Branch's are stationed at, yes , would be offered there , in the Gyms that those interested in could attend on their own as their interests are piqued, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's so, if not that discipline, others of the martial arts. Actually where I said those bases where combat branches are based, I would think all bases of military are based will have such classes offered, voluntarily, all the military, whether one tour or a career, are considered professionals and career in the military , thus service troops or combat troops , all troops of the military and profesionals, there would be a interest by many I would think.
|
|
Politically_Incorrect12
Senior Member
With a little faith, we can move a mountain; with a little help, we can change the world.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 20:42:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,763
|
Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jan 25, 2011 23:08:12 GMT -5
No, I don't believe MMA training should be introduced to every recruit during Basic Training. I do believe more hand-to-hand combat training should be given to anybody going into a combat MOS, but I don't believe it should be MMA. MMA is a sport with rules, and the only rule of real life combat is to survive it. I would prefer the discipline by a true combat art without rules, like Shou Shu. I am a Shou Shu student, and things which are forbidden in sport arts (groin kicks, eye gouges, throat strikes, etc) are an integral part of the art for us. It is interesting that people associate the idea of MMA with a sport such as cage fighting. While many cage fighters do study MMA, they are capable of doing things that aren't allowed by the rules of the cage fighting sport. The "rules" mentioned are when in a sparring match, not outside of it. MMA means "mixed martial arts," which is learning how to put different martials arts together into a cohesive form of self defense. Personally I think having the ability to use many different forms in all areas of combat would be a good thing. Trying to argue that studying ONE form is better than understanding how to fight from many forms makes no sense. People learning the basics of ju-jitzu and wrestling for ground fighting, while also understanding the basics of being able to kickbox, Boxing, Jeet Kune Do, Kali, etc. would allow them to fight in any range from ground fighting, punching and kicking range, or even a hand help weapon range. People can get pretty good at putting different arts together after they learn the basics.
|
|
fairlycrazy23
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 23:55:19 GMT -5
Posts: 3,306
|
Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jan 27, 2011 17:22:23 GMT -5
Actually by strict definition I would think they already teach MMA, since they don't actually teach any single discipline, such as MCMAP. But I actually took the question to just mean more unarmed or close combat training.
I am not sure how much extra effort should be put into unarmed combat, if it is going to take away from something else. However, maybe, general physical fitness training could be adjusted to focus more on martial arts, you might be able to increase the amount martial arts training while not reducing any other area.
But here is another question if you create a "new" martial art, taking things from karate,ju-jitzu and boxing and call it kuxing, are you no longer doing MMA since you just doing one art kuxing?
|
|
|
Post by privateinvestor on Jan 27, 2011 17:31:18 GMT -5
Should the military add MMA training to Basic? (Read 203 times)
No not in basic training but forms of Martial Arts are taught as part of Ranger,& Special Forces Advanced Training. And many of these troopers attend Karate Classes or Martial Arts Training on their own time as part of their physical training.
|
|
handyman2
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 29, 2010 23:56:33 GMT -5
Posts: 3,087
|
Post by handyman2 on Feb 5, 2011 20:12:45 GMT -5
MMA is not easy to learn and for many military job discriptiions would be useless and a waste of money. Now for special ops infiltration units yes it could be helpful.
|
|