McCônnêll Próposal: Next Step/Imperial Presidency

[billisonboard]

The top Republican in the Senate proposed on Tuesday giving President Barack Obama sweeping new power to, in effect, unilaterally increase the nation's debt limit to avoid a first-ever default on U.S. obligations. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43725919/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

Why doesn't Congress just give the presidency total power now instead of just ceding more and more power?

[privateinvestor]

Can't Obama issue a Presidential Executive Order to increase the debt ceiling to avoid a financial crisis across the world banking systems??

Or does he just want to worry about his re election in 2012 and continue to place the blame on Boehner and McConnell for refusing to cut a deal with him to increase revenues??

Curious and worried minds would sure like to know especially those of us who hope to get a pay check in August from the Government..

[handyman2]

Cannot say this is a comforting idea. Some have said he already has that option but not sure. All this derision reminds me of the German government in about 1928 and their currency was in the toilet and they were in debt to everybody and they eventually sceeded power to Hitler based on his promise to solve the problem. He did by printing worthless marks and the other country took them. It is said history repeats it's self.

[privateinvestor]

We almost had a shut down out here in CA and the Controller refused to pay any of the legislators in Sacramento CA if they didn't pass a budget....they went a few days without a pay check and you guessed it they passed a state budget for fiscal year 2012...

[billisonboard]

Jul 12, 2011 20:08:19 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Can't Obama issue a Presidential Executive Order to increase the debt ceiling to avoid a financial crisis across the world banking systems??

Or does he just want to worry about his re election in 2012 and continue to place the blame on Boehner and McConnell for refusing to cut a deal with him to increase revenues??

Curious and worried minds would sure like to know especially those of us who hope to get a pay check in August from the Government..

Obama blah blah blah

Boehner blah blah blah

McConnell blah blah blah

A Congressional leader has purposed that Congress give yet more power to the Presidency. Whether it is or isn't a cynical ploy by a leader of one major political party to get a leader of the another major political party to do something is irrelevant. It is another example of the legislative branch ceding even more power to the executive branch. We need to speak out about this happening.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 12, 2011 20:33:05 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jul 12, 2011 20:08:19 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

Can't Obama issue a Presidential Executive Order to increase the debt ceiling to avoid a financial crisis across the world banking systems??

Or does he just want to worry about his re election in 2012 and continue to place the blame on Boehner and McConnell for refusing to cut a deal with him to increase revenues??

Curious and worried minds would sure like to know especially those of us who hope to get a pay check in August from the Government..

Obama blah blah blah

Boehner blah blah blah

McConnell blah blah blah

A Congressional leader has purposed that Congress give yet more power to the Presidency. Whether it is or isn't a cynical ploy by a leader of one major political party to get a leader of the another major political party to do something is irrelevant. It is another example of the legislative branch ceding even more power to the executive branch. We need to speak out about this happening.

The top Republican in the Senate proposed on Tuesday giving President Barack Obama sweeping new power to, in effect, unilaterally increase the nation's debt limit to avoid a first-ever default on U.S. obligations.

The new mechanism would take the place of the current White House debt negotiations among congressional leaders and Obama. Those talks over spending cuts and tax increases have grown increasingly acrimonious.

Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., offered a new plan to allow the president to demand up to $2.4 trillion in new borrowing authority by the summer of next year in three separate submissions.

Those increases in the so-called debt limit would automatically take effect unless both the Republican-controlled House and the Democratic Senate enact legislation specifically disapproving it.
First Thoughts: Total stalemate
Obama would be able to veto such legislation. McConnell said he reluctantly offered the unusual proposal because it has become clear the negotiations with Obama are not going anywhere.

The Republican plan would require that Obama submit spending cuts along with his borrowing requests. But unlike the increase in the debt limit, they wouldn't automatically take effect.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he had spoken briefly to McConnell about the idea and said he would consider it.

The sweeping new power would only be in effect through the remainder of Obama's term, which ends January 2013.
Video: Obama: 'I cannot guarantee those checks go out on Aug. 3' (on this page)
McConnell's plan would permit an immediate increase in the debt limit of $100 billion while Congress debates whether to disapprove of it.

An Aug. 2 deadline looms for Congress to raise the country's debt limit. Republicans are insisting on major budget cuts to reduce the swollen deficit. Obama and his fellow Democrats are also offering budget cuts but in tandem with tax increases that the Republicans say they won't support.

Both Democratic and Republican leaders agree the U.S. shouldn't be allowed to default on its obligations, which could skyrocket interest rates, send stock markets plunging and shatter faith in the world's No. 1 economy. The showdown comes as Obama and lawmakers head into next year's presidential and congressional elections.

McConnell offered the plan just a couple of hours before he was scheduled to go to the White House for the third round of budget talks in as many days.
Video: Scarborough: Can’t transform entitlements ‘with a gun to your head’ (on this page)
"I had hoped all year long that the opportunity presented by his request of us to raises the debt ceiling would generate a bipartisan agreement that would begin to get our house in order," McConnell said. "I still hope it will. But we're certainly not going to send a signal to the markets and the American people that default is an option."

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and other market experts have issued dire warnings of the effect a potential default would have on the still-struggling economy, including a downgrade in the government's AAA bond rating, higher interest rates and panic in financial markets here and abroad. Obama himself warned in a CBS News interview that he couldn't guarantee that government pension plan payments would go out as scheduled on Aug. 3.

An aide to House Speaker John Boehner, a Republican, said Boehner shares McConnell's concerns about the lack of progress in the talks. A spokesman for House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, a Republican, said Cantor feels that the McConnell proposal could be helpful.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or



www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43725919/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

[billisonboard]

Jul 12, 2011 20:36:53 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

...

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43725919/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

Yes that is the full copy and paste of what I cited in the OP. There are plenty of threads to discuss the debt ceiling game playing. What I was hoping to do here was look at the bigger picture of the dangerous growth in presidential power.

[floridayankee]

Jul 12, 2011 21:07:23 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Yes that is the full copy and paste of what I cited in the OP. There are plenty of threads to discuss the debt ceiling game playing. What I was hoping to do here was look at the bigger picture of the dangerous growth in presidential power.

Wouldn't this have to pass the Senate and then the House in order to take effect? I really can't see the house approving such a bill.

IMHO, if they do this, wouldn't it be more prudent to just remove the cap and be done with it? Then these idiots could throw out any ounce of fiscal sanity they have left and spend, spend, spend!

[billisonboard]

Jul 13, 2011 7:44:12 GMT -5 floridayankee said:

Jul 12, 2011 21:07:23 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Yes that is the full copy and paste of what I cited in the OP. There are plenty of threads to discuss the debt ceiling game playing. What I was hoping to do here was look at the bigger picture of the dangerous growth in presidential power.

Wouldn't this have to pass the Senate and then the House in order to take effect? I really can't see the house approving such a bill.

IMHO, if they do this, wouldn't it be more prudent to just remove the cap and be done with it? Then these idiots could throw out any ounce of fiscal sanity they have left and spend, spend, spend!

Hope you are correct about the House.

And IM(not so)HO, if they do this, they might as well also do the same with the budget. The budget the President "proposes" becomes the budget "unless both the (currently) Republican-controlled House and the (currently) Democratic Senate enact legislation specifically disapproving it" (using the wording from McConnell's debt ceiling proposal).

[ugonow]

to let Obama raise the limit by himself?www.redstate.com/erick/2011/07/12/it-is-time-to-burn-mitch-mcconnell-in-effigy-he-goes-pontius-pilate-on-the-debt-ceiling/

[reasonfreedom]

I think it was a stupid move on the part for his re-election.

[ugonow]

Yup.I think much like Cantors walk out, it is a face saving tatic.

[privateinvestor]

Not to worry maybe Ex Speaker Pelosi will save Obama's bacon again and come up with a compromise for her dems and the repubs.... After all Pelosi was once the most powerful woman in the United States Congress and don't you forget it..


We’re not for increasing revenue.” -- House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, July 6

“No benefit cuts in Medicare and Social Security.” -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, July 8

“Everything is on the table.” -- President Obama, July 7

There you have it. Everything is on the table -- except revenue raisers, which is not synonymous with tax increases, and changes in entitlement benefits, the source of the U.S.’s long- term deficit problem. No wonder the talks are meandering toward the Aug. 2 drop-dead date for raising the debt limit.

While Cantor and Pelosi are substituting politics for policy, their short-sightedness should be obvious to open-minded folks of all political persuasions.

Why wouldn’t everyone want increased revenue, especially if it’s the result of stronger economic growth? The U.S. suffers from a tax revenue, not tax rate, problem.

[billisonboard]

I started a thread on it:
Next Step for Imperial Presidency
notmsnmoney.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=politics&action=display&thread=11246

[ugonow]

Sorry, bill, didn't see it.

[billisonboard]

Title might be too cryptic.

Changed it.

[privateinvestor]

“No benefit cuts in Medicare and Social Security.” -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, July 8

“Everything is on the table.” -- President Obama, July 7

Are Ms Pelosi and Obama singing from the same Dem Play Book or Hymn Book??

[chiver78]

I missed it too. thanks for changing the title. I'll just move these posts into that thread.

-chiver78/Moderator.

[billisonboard]

Jul 13, 2011 8:27:17 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

“No benefit cuts in Medicare and Social Security.” -- House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, July 8

“Everything is on the table.” -- President Obama, July 7

Are Ms Pelosi and Obama singing from the same Dem Play Book or Hymn Book??

"I don't belong to an organized political party;. I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers

The Democratic Party is not a lock-step organization.

[ugonow]

The Democratic Party is not a lock-step organization.

Maybe they need some party pledges.

[privateinvestor]

WASHINGTON — Budget talks between President Barack Obama and his GOP rivals are at a frustrating standstill, leading a top Republican to launch a long-shot proposal to give Obama sweeping new powers to muscle through an increase in the government's debt limit without the approval of a bitterly divided Congress.

Lawmakers return to the White House Wednesday for their third negotiating session with the president in as many days. Obama has said the daily meetings will continue until a deal is reached.

A two-hour session Tuesday produced no progress after a day of poisonous exchanges between Democrats and Republicans.

Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky offered a backup plan that would, in effect, guarantee Obama requests for new government borrowing authority unless Congress musters veto-proof majorities to deny him. McConnell said he was forced to introduce the plan because he didn't see a path to an agreement so long as Democrats insist on revenue increases.

McConnell's proposal immediately ran into stiff opposition among tea party conservatives and seemed unlikely to pass the House, but neither the White House nor House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, dismissed it out of hand.

"I think everybody agrees there needs to be a backup plan if we can't come to an agreement," Boehner said in a Fox News Channel interview Tuesday afternoon. "And frankly, I think Mitch has done good work."

Under McConnell's proposal, Obama could request — and likely secure — increases of up to $2.5 trillion in the government's borrowing authority in three separate installments over the coming year as long as he simultaneously proposed spending cuts of greater size.

The debt limit increases would take effect unless blocked by Congress under special rules that would require speedy action — and even then Obama could exercise his authority to veto such legislation. But the president's spending would have no guarantee of receiving a vote.

"The American people elected (McConnell) to serve as a check on Obama's appetite for out-of-control spending, not to write him a blank check to continue the binge," said conservative activist Brett Bozell. "It's these sort of shenanigans that got Republicans thrown out of power in 2006."

Tea party favorite Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., asked about McConnell's plan Wednesday on CBS' "The Early Show," said, "Republicans weren't elected last November to make it easier to spend and borrow and add to our debt."

GOP presidential candidate Newt Gingrich wrote on Twitter, "McConnell's plan is an irresponsible surrender to big government, big deficits and continued overspending."

McConnell made his proposal public a few hours before Obama presided over his third meeting in as many days with congressional leaders searching for a way to avoid a default and possible financial crisis.

Democratic officials who participated in the session said Obama did not reject McConnell's idea, but said it's not his preferred approach. A statement issued later by press secretary Jay Carney said the president "continues to believe that our focus must remain on seizing this unique opportunity to come to agreement on significant, balanced deficit reduction."

McConnell's plan was hatched out of frustration that Congress and Obama are deadlocked as the clock ticks toward an Aug. 2 deadline for a market-rattling default on U.S. obligations.

"I had hoped all year long that the opportunity presented by his request of us to raise the debt ceiling would generate a bipartisan agreement that would begin to get our house in order," McConnell said. "I still hope it will. But we're certainly not going to send a signal to the markets and the American people that default is an option."

Republicans are demanding $2 trillion-plus in budget cuts as the price for a commensurate increase in the government's ability to continue to borrow more than 40 cents of every dollar it spends. Both Republicans and Obama see the politically toxic debt limit vote as a way to seize an opportunity to cut future deficits — a move that would seem to be to the political benefit of both sides.

But GOP refusals to consider devoting any new revenue from closing tax loopholes — like those enjoyed by oil and gas companies — to cutting the deficit has led Democrats to withhold further spending cuts beyond a handful tentatively agreed to during several weeks of talks led by Vice President Joe Biden in May and June. For their part, Republicans say the White House is offering minuscule spending cuts in the near term and is pulling back from some tentative agreements on topics like requiring federal workers to contribute more to their pensions.

Obama himself upped the stakes Tuesday, telling CBS News anchor Scott Pelley that more than $20 billion in Social Security checks could be held up.

"I can't guarantee that the checks will go out Aug. 3 if we haven't resolved this," Obama said. "There may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it."





xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20110711/US.Debt.Showdown/

[floridayankee]

Jul 13, 2011 8:14:11 GMT -5 reasonfreedom said:

I think it was a stupid move on the part for his re-election.

Maybe he'll run as a democrat....

[privateinvestor]

The debt limit increases would take effect unless blocked by Congress under special rules that would require speedy action — and even then Obama could exercise his authority to veto such legislation. But the president's spending would have no guarantee of receiving a vote.

Is this possibly a way out of this impasse??? Where are the Constitutional Scholars when we need them here??? Or the Political Experts who can weigh in on this attempt by McConnell to save Obama which has his conservative colleagues hair on fire especially the Tea Party and Old Newtie.. ;D

[marvholly]

Jul 12, 2011 20:28:20 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

We almost had a shut down out here in CA and the Controller refused to pay any of the legislators in Sacramento CA if they didn't pass a budget....they went a few days without a pay check and you guessed it they passed a state budget for fiscal year 2012...

This is what I think needs to happen along w/laying off EVERY staffer & federal employee (inc airport controllers, thus grounding ALL US air traffic) + NOT paying soc sec/SSDI as of 7/31/11…….Nothing but interest due & debt payments.

Back to the OP:
I cannot see many members of congress, repub or demo, agreeing to give up that much power even in the short term.

[privateinvestor]

Jul 13, 2011 9:01:09 GMT -5 marvholly said:

Jul 12, 2011 20:28:20 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

We almost had a shut down out here in CA and the Controller refused to pay any of the legislators in Sacramento CA if they didn't pass a budget....they went a few days without a pay check and you guessed it they passed a state budget for fiscal year 2012...

This is what I think needs to happen along w/laying off EVERY staffer & federal employee (inc airport controllers, thus grounding ALL US air traffic) + NOT paying soc sec/SSDI as of 7/31/11…….Nothing but interest due & debt payments.

Back to the OP:
I cannot see many members of congress, repub or demo, agreeing to give up that much power even in the short term.

Yea but what else can be done since the two parties are still so far apart over Spending Cuts vs Revenue Increases...IMHO

[billisonboard]

Jul 13, 2011 8:54:22 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

The debt limit increases would take effect unless blocked by Congress under special rules that would require speedy action — and even then Obama could exercise his authority to veto such legislation. But the president's spending would have no guarantee of receiving a vote.

Is this possibly a way out of this impasse??? Where are the Constitutional Scholars when we need them here??? Or the Political Experts who can weigh in on this attempt by McConnell to save Obama which has his conservative colleagues hair on fire especially the Tea Party and Old Newtie.. ;D

One way out of any impasse is to give all the power to one person to make the decision.

On the constitutional issue:

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power...;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
...
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof. www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

My read is that they have to the sole power borrow money but also have the power to pass any law on the procedure to do so. Reminds me of watching a kid demonstrate the ability to kick himself in the head. After watching him almost knock himself unconscious, I asked him the question, "Just because you can do something, does it mean you should do it?" I do not support an "Imperial Presidency". The presidency should not be given this power.

[floridayankee]

Jul 13, 2011 8:54:22 GMT -5 @privateinvestor said:

The debt limit increases would take effect unless blocked by Congress under special rules that would require speedy action — and even then Obama could exercise his authority to veto such legislation. But the president's spending would have no guarantee of receiving a vote.

Is this possibly a way out of this impasse???

IMHO, this is as chicken shit as state senators fleeing when they don't get their way.

The Senate still doesn't get it. Quit passing the buck and do your f'n job!

[henryclay]

All these people that want to borrow that much more money , , , really don't want to borrow it after all. It's like typical liberal double speak, , , they want somebody else to "borrow" the money, they just want the benefit of having it to spend.

Why wouldn't they be climbing all over the McConnell proposal? Why are they yelling like they're being victimized instead?

I have no clue as to how it's all going to turn out, but it's hilarious to me to watch how the liberals hate it when the daylight is made to shine on their ideas.

[handyman2]

One of the problems with politics is politicians all seem to have large ego's. Once they take a stand they just seem not to be able to admit that there may be a better way. To them it is a sign of weakness that they cannot admit. They will stick to their position mindless of the fact that they are given the task of what is best for the people and the nation. Plain common sense does not seem to be part of their thought process.

[privateinvestor]

Posted at 08:52 AM ET, 07/13/2011
West Wing briefing: Should Obama back McConnell’s debt ceiling proposal?

By Perry Bacon Jr.


The proposal to end the impasse over the federal debt ceiling offered by Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) Tuesday would effectively shift the entire responsibility of the issue to President Obama. The proposal would require Obama to identify trillions of dollars in budget cuts and prohibit him from raising taxes on upper-income Americans as Democrats would like.

Despite those less-than-ideal circumstances, should he take the deal anyway?

McConnell’s proposal would create a new legal structure authorizing the president to raise the debt limit by as much as $2.5 trillion in three installments, but would require him to submit to Congress a request for an increase, along with a list of proposed spending cuts equal to the increase. The debt limit would be increased unless Congress not only passed a resolution disapproving of the increase but also had a two-thirds majority in both houses to override a presidential veto of the resolution.

Agreeing to the proposal would likely end any chance of Obama crafting a comprehensive deficit reduction deal that would be a boon to the president’s 2012 prospects, but it would show him tackling a major problem in a bipartisan manner and make it hard for Republicans to cast him as a big spender. McConnell’s plan would require Obama to list proposed spending hikes, but disallows tax increases, which the president has said should be enacted to help balance the budget.

At the same time, Obama would avert cuts in Social Security and Medicare benefits that were part of the proposed broader agreement, but strongly opposed by many Democrats. And Obama would only have to propose budget cuts; there is no guarantee they would actually be enacted by Congress.

Accepting the deal would allow Obama to stop talking about an issue in which the president simply hasn’t sold the public on his position. Despite the rhetoric from Obama and even many Republicans about the dangers of a government default, polls show a plurality of Americans, including many Democrats, don’t support raising the debt limit.

Read more at PostPolitics.com


www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/44/post/should-obama-back-mcconnells-unusual-debt-ceiling-proposal/2011/07/13/gIQAsuRGCI_blog.html