bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 8, 2011 22:02:55 GMT -5
The Whole idea of the system we call Social Security comes from the German State of Prussia under Bismarck.. He used it to gain support of the working class. Again under FDR the system was very political from the start.. It used part of every working man and woman to increase the amount of money in the form of a dedicated Trust fund to buy Special T-Bonds. From day one, the system was know in Europe as a very tight system in payments but very solvent. During the war in VN President Johnson distroyed the American Dream with the raiding of the trust.. Smothing you never do to the Trust of the American Workers.. Clinton used the clause in the law to try to repay the loan as it was stated by Johnson. Now we have about 40% of the Trust fund we would have had and very "fuzzy" math working on the COL systems.. Many are mad.. Let us know what you think .. Remember, if you are a lady that your income from the SS system will be over 200% of the money you have paid out of your purse. Well We are working for our Grandmothers!! These are my Opinion.. If you do not feel Moon will let you tell it like it is.. Bet she may agree with your thought so send me an PM.. Bi Metal Au Pt See: Who gets the money!!!! Everyone pays so everyone has some protection!!! Attachments:
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 8, 2011 23:50:58 GMT -5
Well, until 2010 the Social Security system income from working people was greater then the out go to retired people and others.. The Great Recession has only been a speed bump in the Trust fund. Some do know know how large this trust is... 2.8Trillion USD..The interest on this was only 49 Billion dollars but that did cover the shortfall with 20 billion USD left over.. Thoughts on how this will redistribute income.. The lowest quadrant receives some 126.4% of replacement income to retire on.... Top quadrant not so well.. Check out the chart Attachment please.. Your thought on this liberal concept.. Israel SS is better for the lower half!! Will this win over any Palestine voters!!! Bi Metal Au Pt Attachments:
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 9, 2011 8:55:25 GMT -5
The idea of saving for retirement isn't a bad thing The idea that the government will do it for you is where the disagreement comes into play. Also, at that time, SS was stated to be one of three legs in retirement (SS, pension, savings).
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 9:35:36 GMT -5
The idea of saving for retirement isn't a bad thing The idea that the government will do it for you is where the disagreement comes into play. Also, at that time, SS was stated to be one of three legs in retirement (SS, pension, savings). ...agreed...
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 9, 2011 9:40:27 GMT -5
Congress is thinking about changing the earliest age for SS @ 70 years and that would save the government a few trillion over the next ten years...or change the formula for computing COLA....but Pelosi's hair is on fire because of these proposals being considered by the debt reduction for lunch bunch who meet again tomorrow with Obama in the White House.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 9:44:21 GMT -5
Personally,I always considered SS more of an insurance policy than an investment.There are already a multitude of tax free or defered investment vehicles like 401's Roths, traditional IRA's,etc available that anyone can invest in anytime they want.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 9:59:49 GMT -5
Personally,I always considered SS more of an insurance policy than an investment.There are already a multitude of tax free or defered investment vehicles like 401's Roths, traditional IRA's,etc available that anyone can invest in anytime they want. ...but when the feds have already withheld the $200/mo you would have used to take advantage of those investment vehicles, it gets frustrating...
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 10:01:15 GMT -5
Can't blame the gubmint for my not making more or not budgeting better. Whatever I don't have I earned.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 9, 2011 10:02:25 GMT -5
Can't blame the gubmint for my not making more or not budgeting better. Whatever I don't have I earned. What?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 10:04:19 GMT -5
Whatever I don't have I earned. ...well, at least this part is true when we're talking about OASDI...
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 10:10:26 GMT -5
I mean what I have,I earned,and what I don't have is my own doing also. I don't blame the gubmint for my lackings.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 9, 2011 10:10:52 GMT -5
Congress is thinking about changing the earliest age for SS @ 70 years and that would save the government a few trillion over the next ten years...or change the formula for computing COLA....but Pelosi's hair is on fire because of these proposals being considered by the debt reduction for lunch bunch who meet against tomorrow with Obama in the White House. My hair would be on fire if it were raised to 70 years of age. People are not made of enough good materials to carry out a physical workload at that age. What the Government would not be paying out in SS dollars, companies would be paying out in even larger sums to doctors and lawyers on workmen's comp claims. Now, if you want to talk about police, firemen, and military personnel retiring on full pensions at 45 to 50 years of age, and push that back to say, 65, we can have a disussion. I am sure you will agree with me on that one........
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 10:13:21 GMT -5
Congress is thinking about changing the earliest age for SS @ 70 years and that would save the government a few trillion over the next ten years...or change the formula for computing COLA....but Pelosi's hair is on fire because of these proposals being considered by the debt reduction for lunch bunch who meet against tomorrow with Obama in the White House. My hair would be on fire if it were raised to 70 years of age. People are not made of enough good materials to carry out a physical workload at that age. What the Government would not be paying out in SS dollars, companies would be paying out in even larger sums to doctors and lawyers on workmen's comp claims. Now, if you want to talk about police, firemen, and military personnel retiring on full pensions at 45 to 50 years of age, and push that back to say, 65, we can have a disussion. I am sure you will agree with me on that one........ ...I don't...
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 10:16:22 GMT -5
Do you pay for a long term disability policy? They act as secondary to SSD.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 10:19:37 GMT -5
Do you pay for a long term disability policy? They act as secondary to SSD. ...imo, the real question becomes, will they always act as secondary to SSD?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 10:21:52 GMT -5
If not, you probably won't be able to afford it,so the question won't matter anyways...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 10:34:04 GMT -5
If not, you probably won't be able to afford it,so the question won't matter anyways... ...why not?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 10:38:54 GMT -5
I did not really mean you.I just meant it would be very expensive if your private LTD were primary.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 11:12:42 GMT -5
I did not really mean you.I just meant it would be very expensive if your private LTD were primary. ...fair enough... would you likewise say that it's very expensive to have public SSD as primary?
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 9, 2011 11:18:54 GMT -5
Sure it is.Especially if you are fortunate enough to never need it. But given the choice,most people would refuse to pay for it,but yet still expect someone else to pay for their keep if disabled.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 9, 2011 11:43:05 GMT -5
Sure it is.Especially if you are fortunate enough to never need it. But given the choice,most people would refuse to pay for it,but yet still expect someone else to pay for their keep if disabled. ...really?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on Jul 9, 2011 11:44:22 GMT -5
Sure it is.Especially if you are fortunate enough to never need it. But given the choice,most people would refuse to pay for it,but yet still expect someone else to pay for their keep if disabled. Easy to paint with a broad brush when the opinion can't be presented with facts.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Jul 9, 2011 12:58:55 GMT -5
Personally,I always considered SS more of an insurance policy than an investment.There are already a multitude of tax free or defered investment vehicles like 401's Roths, traditional IRA's,etc available that anyone can invest in anytime they want. Kind of an expensive insurance policy. I wonder how people would view a company that takes that same percentage of your paycheck, who also decides they want to pay less, raise the amount they take, and or raise your age of eligibility?
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 9, 2011 14:36:53 GMT -5
The idea of saving for retirement isn't a bad thing The idea that the government will do it for you is where the disagreement comes into play. Also, at that time, SS was stated to be one of three legs in retirement (SS, pension, savings). PI-12, Yes It was one of three legs as designed by FDR's Brain Team.. But the over all reason for the systems very cheap payout was it was a defined bond plan with special T-bond only in the Trust. ( How is that for reverse logic)? The answer to the top question is the program will hold your retirement back due to the low return on the special bonds( per my Father in law who was an actuator during the 1935 period of time when SS was launched.) the assumption was you would have invested it in an better plan that paid more interest( leg 2 or 3). Grate Post!! K4U.. Bi Metal Au Pt Attachments:
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 9, 2011 14:54:56 GMT -5
I mean what I have,I earned,and what I don't have is my own doing also. I don't blame the gubmint for my lackings. Ugonow, Yes but all of the systems on the study paid the first quadrant about 100% replacement income.. These will be the most at risk,
Bi Metal Au Pt Please see income replacement study chart.. for Quadrant 1 the SS replaces 126% of the income. Attachments:
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Jul 9, 2011 16:24:42 GMT -5
Has everyone forgotten that this year, we all are paying 2% less in SS taxes? This is scheduled to terminate on 12/31/2011.
That should be amusing when that date approaches.
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 9, 2011 16:57:57 GMT -5
Has everyone forgotten that this year, we all are paying 2% less in SS taxes? This is scheduled to terminate on 12/31/2011. That should be amusing when that date approaches . S.F., You are correct. . I posted the income and outgo chart for the Trust Fund.. That did put the payment greater then the cash received but the interest on the Trust made up the difference.
...You can see on the chart the fund growth slow during 2010 as inflow greater then outgo only because of the interest on the trust!!! [glow=red,2,300] Love compound interest.."Strongest force in the universe "..Einstein [/glow] K4U.. Great Call!!! Bi Metal Au Pt!! Attachments:
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Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger
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Post by Aman A.K.A. Ahamburger on Jul 9, 2011 23:05:42 GMT -5
So income up? and your chart shows that until the crash SS was fully funded.. With increase GDP and revenue from tax, it will be again, no? Where do the issues come in from the conversation on MT? Do they raid the SS fund to try and pay off debt?? Is that what you were talking about???
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 10, 2011 1:04:58 GMT -5
So income up? and your chart shows that until the crash SS was fully funded.. With increase GDP and revenue from tax, it will be again, no? Where do the issues come in from the conversation on MT? Do they raid the SS fund to try and pay off debt?? Is that what you were talking about??? A++, The events that removed most of the Trust funds funds was during the War in VN.. Under President Johnson. In 1986 the Trust Fund under Reagan was again restarted and now is about 2.8 Trillion USD!!.. Great Question... K4U Just a thought, Bi Metal Au Pt
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reasonfreedom
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Post by reasonfreedom on Jul 10, 2011 6:20:59 GMT -5
Has everyone forgotten that this year, we all are paying 2% less in SS taxes? This is scheduled to terminate on 12/31/2011. That should be amusing when that date approaches. They also raised Federal income taxes too. Well atleast on my paystub with no raise, same wages as last year. I have to check again but I think it was like a 1.3% raise which doesn't totally nullify the SS decrease. This is for a Salary just under 40k.
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