wmpeon
Established Member
Joined: Mar 15, 2011 21:08:24 GMT -5
Posts: 344
|
Post by wmpeon on Jul 10, 2011 16:31:35 GMT -5
We can continue arguing about his history, but he still wasn't arrested for his past. Chase had him arrested for trying to cash a legitimate check. I agree with toughtimes, it's better that he settle quickly and quietly before his history gets played up even further.
|
|
wodehouse
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 10, 2011 16:35:08 GMT -5
Posts: 786
|
Post by wodehouse on Jul 10, 2011 16:36:45 GMT -5
This sounds so ludicrous, that Chase had him arrested for trying to cash a legitimate check.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 16, 2024 9:10:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 16:53:42 GMT -5
Toughtimes, I think you are preaching to the choir. I don't think any of the YM regulars would DELIBERATELY kite a check. I think those who said they had done it accidentally did it, and the bank forgave them. The bank probably waived the fee. But I don't really know.
So I agree the guy chronically overdrew. But that isn't what he was arrested for. He was arrested because his bank suspected his cashier's check was fraudulent. It even said that Chase tried to tell the arresting detective that the check was good, but the detective wasn't there.
I never understand how these situations escalate to where people lose their cars and jobs. Even when I had a car payment, I wouldn't have lost it for being a few days late . . . because I have never been late. My job wouldn't fire me . . . because I would find a ride. Like I said, it's the escalation part is the hard part to grasp.
|
|
wodehouse
Familiar Member
Joined: Jan 10, 2011 16:35:08 GMT -5
Posts: 786
|
Post by wodehouse on Jul 10, 2011 17:18:53 GMT -5
SS, I think it's when people live on the edge that they are at risk of an ugly situation turning catastrophic. It's funny though that he was driving an Infiniti (probably used). This is why what's her name from the old MSN forums had the article about keeping the 500 bucks in your checking account as a safety cushion.
The part that makes me really angry is that the guy was jailed for the legit check. I wish a couple people from that Chase branch would spend a weekend in jail too.
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 10, 2011 17:34:50 GMT -5
Please note that this is a quote from the original news story and a quote of the relevant criminal and civil statues in the state were the Nigerian bad-check passer lived."Nigerian bad-check passer"? The guy is American - of Nigerian descent. Born in Seattle. from the local news: Chase Bank has issued an apology for having a customer arrested for trying to cash a Chase cashier’s check at a bank branch in Auburn.
Ikenna Njoku, 28, was accused of forging the check which had been mailed to him by Chase. The customer banker who handles large checks for the Chase branch told KING 5 the check looked fake, so she called police. Njoku was arrested and taken to jail June 24, 2010.
The next day, Chase Special Investigations realized there had been a mistake and the check was legitimate. According to the police report, the investigator left a voice mail for a detective, but it was her day off, so no one heard the message until the following Monday. Njoku spent five days and four nights in jail before being released. "This is a very unfortunate and unusual situation," wrote Darcy Donahoe-Wilmot of Chase Public Relations. "We apologize to Mr. Njoku and deeply regret what happened to him. We are working quickly to understand all the details so we can reach a fair resolution."www.king5.com/news/investigators/Chase-apologizes-to-customer-for-wrongful-arrest-125182154.htmlThe investigator left a voice mail - knowing the guy was being wrongfully held in jail. Thus compounding Chase's earlier mistake.
My job wouldn't fire me . . . because I would find a ride. Like I said, it's the escalation part is the hard part to grasp. Southernsusanna - His problem wasn't lack of a ride - he missed work because he was in jail - wrongfully because of Chase's incompetence. Here's a link to the original story: www.king5.com/news/125105599.htmlclip: The check had Njoku’s name and address on it and was issued by JP Morgan Chase. But the Chase Customer Banker who handles large checks at the Auburn branch was immediately suspicious. “I was embarrassed,” Njoku said. “She asked me what I did for a living. Asked me where I got the check from, looked me up and down—like ‘you just bought a house in Auburn, really?’ She didn’t believe that,” he said. The Customer Banker said the check looked fake, so she took it, along with Njoku’s driver license and credit card, and called Bank Support.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 16, 2024 9:10:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 18:26:27 GMT -5
Sorry to contradict you, GG, because we are on the same team here, but the OP's original link made it sound like he lost his job because he lost his car. He was only in jail for 5 days, part of which I think was over the weekend.
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 10, 2011 18:40:45 GMT -5
He was only in jail for 5 days"Only in jail 5 days" ? If I were wrongfully held in jail - 5 hours would be too much.... 5 days is outrageous when Chase KNEW the check was valid and the forgery charges were wrong. This is a quote from the King 5 story (the original one - the msn story clipped some things from the original) He said he also lost his job because he didn’t show up for work while he was in jail.www.king5.com/news/125105599.html"Jailed for Cashing Chase check at Chase Bank" What I find unfathomable is the Chase Special Investigator who determined that the check was legtimate and left the voice mail - knowing that the guy was wrongfully in jail. He/she couldn't be bothered to make sure they talked to a human being? All they had to do was dial 911. It just smacks of arrogance on top of incompetence - or worse.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 16, 2024 9:10:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2011 19:07:19 GMT -5
I agree with you, GG, but my "only in jail for 5 days" was a reference to how did all this snowball and make him lose his job?
I never understand that when I read articles like this one. Like I said, if I lost my car (and I wouldn't after only 5 days in jail), I would find a ride to work.
It is simply the snowball effect that ALWAYS takes place in this type of article that amazes me. Yes, I'd be screaming if they locked me in jail for 5 hours. But 5 days wouldn't cost me my car or my job.
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 10, 2011 19:23:14 GMT -5
I believe you are a teacher. So, you're right; missing a couple of days work would not cause you to lose your job. Construction workers, esp in a tight economy, have a much harder time.....
He didn't have the money to pay the impound fees after Chase had his car towed off their parking lot. (Why couldn't they have let the car stay on his lot a day or two?) He's only 28. Pretty young to have an EF, although the story does show how important is it to have an EF, that is really beside the point.
Btw, I watched the story on the local news channel. There was quite a bit more - including an interview with the Auburn police chief who said that Chase could have reached a person if they'd tried. His exact words were, "Chase could have done more"
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 10, 2011 20:38:24 GMT -5
tt He was first generation American. I'm sorry about your Nigerian scam experiences, but you seem to be projecting them onto this guy. And it does Not fit with your (normally) logical posts.....
|
|
wmpeon
Established Member
Joined: Mar 15, 2011 21:08:24 GMT -5
Posts: 344
|
Post by wmpeon on Jul 10, 2011 20:44:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the new link. The lawyer's letter to Chase is a bit enlightening. They aren't suing because he was wrongfully jailed, they're suing because Chase was required by law to reissue the check immediately after discovering it was valid. Instead Chase dragged its heels, which caused the guy to lose his car and his employment. Different from what I expected, because the whole jail thing is what really upsets me.
|
|
cronewitch
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
Posts: 5,976
|
Post by cronewitch on Jul 10, 2011 22:44:00 GMT -5
How would the bank have known the American born man had ancestors in Nigeria? Most of us wouldn't have a clue what country even if we knew his parents were immigrants from the continent of Africa.
|
|
ZaireinHD
Senior Associate
Joined: Mar 4, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Posts: 12,407
|
Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 10, 2011 23:53:36 GMT -5
Posted on EE side of the community! Let me play devil's advocate here. Have you ever listed anything on Craig's List? Every time I do, it is a matter of hours before I get hit by some scammer ("I want it! I will pay you by cashier's check, full price plus more! I am at sea and want to buy this for my grandmother! My agent will come to your house and pick it up! He will bring a cashier's check! You can cash it at my bank in your neighborhood!). At least once a week I get random email from someone who tries to"enlist my professional help" in collecting inheritances, divorce settlements, and what not. And because my profession does provide services such as these, I assume most people in my profession get these emails. And are we all not familiar with Nigerian scams? So I think Chase was reasonable to question the validity of the check, at least temporarily. You think I'm going to endorse a check for more than $8K and leave it with Chase to investigate while I run errands, and then not get there before the bank closes? (That's not even a little suspicious that when the bank says they're going to investigate, you suddenly have an errand to run and don't come back that day?) Hell no! I'm going to sit down and wait while they do, and then when they tell me it's a counterfeit check I'm going to tell them to have a look at my closed checking account transactions and they will see that the money was transferred in from the U.S. government, IRS. Plus, it says he wanted to CASH the check. That doesn't raise suspicions that a customer walks in with a Chase check and wants to walk out with $8K+ in cash? If he'd wanted to deposit it into an account with Chase, he probably would have had no difficulty; they would have put a hold on the account, made $100 available immediately, and the rest would have been made available when the check cleared. The local yokels don't have the skills to really detect fraudulent checks, but the people at the main bank do, and it wouldn't have taken more than a few days to do it. And two forms of valid i.d.? The news is full of stories about people who create fake i.d.'s. The man should have gotten a bond hearing within a day, if he was taken into custody on a weekday. Why was he sitting in jail for four days? And why would the police sell his car after just 7 days? I think the police are more culpable than the bank. BTW, if you are overdrawn to the tune of $600, the banks WILL close your account. They don't have to ask your permission beforehand. At that point, whether they can collect the $600 you owe them is seriously in doubt. They WILL stop you from accumulating even more indebtedness. You are expected to know that your account is overdrawn. This couldn't have taken him by surprise. Seems to me that if he was expecting a big check to be deposited to that account, he should have made sure the account was in good standing.
|
|
ZaireinHD
Senior Associate
Joined: Mar 4, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Posts: 12,407
|
Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 10, 2011 23:55:44 GMT -5
they are playing the race card for court but I'm not sure that's the way to go? doesn't matter? The very same bank could not verify the check is not counterfeit? A Chase check being cashed at a Chase bank! Plus how dare the BANK close his account! So if bank closes the account they still should have accept the direct deposit take out the $600 and go over closing the account with the customer! ALSO I'm dam sure there was a letter sent with the check from Chase bank! So even if the Branch Manager, Bank Tellers think the check is counterfeit, he should have the letter(s). The letter should have additional information to verify the check! Obviously corporate knew what was going on! AND HOW the HELL does a car get auctioned off in a matter of 7 days? Say he went into bank on Monday - he comes back next day gets arrested Tuesday- stay in Jail til Friday the 4 days mentioned- Chase FINALLY calls cop on Friday - oh our bad dude is clear- cop is out that day- poor guy spends weekend in jail-car is auctioned off for non payment of storage fees? that's bullshit also!! his car is gone! his job is gone! it's 100% banks fault! Bank pushes him off for a year til story hit news before bank says oh my bad sorry! Yes sue the Bank Corporate, Bank Branch, Police Department, and the Impound Yard!!!
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 11, 2011 9:11:04 GMT -5
How would the bank have known the American born man had ancestors in Nigeria? If you live in an area with a large community of any minority you will be able to tell from how they speak.
I watched the video clip of the interview with him. He had no accent. He was born and raised in Seattle.
The bank teller had no way to know that he was of Nigerian descent. All she saw was a young black male with a foreign name and a check for $8000.....
|
|
ZaireinHD
Senior Associate
Joined: Mar 4, 2011 22:14:27 GMT -5
Posts: 12,407
|
Post by ZaireinHD on Jul 11, 2011 9:13:46 GMT -5
How would the bank have known the American born man had ancestors in Nigeria? If you live in an area with a large community of any minority you will be able to tell from how they speak. I watched the video clip of the interview with him. He had no accent. He was born and raised in Seattle. The bank teller had no way to know that he was of Nigerian descent. All she saw was a young black male with a foreign name and a check for $8000..... yea exactly - the bank wouln't know
|
|
cronewitch
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:44:20 GMT -5
Posts: 5,976
|
Post by cronewitch on Jul 11, 2011 9:23:27 GMT -5
The man lived and banked in Auburn WA which is a farther suburb of Seattle and mostly white. It was a farm town in a valley that now has some warehouses and trains but still a bit of small town feel to it. It seems to be mostly white.
The man was American so if he had picked an accent from his parents it wouldn't have been strong enough to tell. Seattle doesn't have many immigrants from Africa so it would be hard for most of us to even guess which country if we hadn't met more than one or two ever.
|
|
Abby Normal
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 12:31:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,501
|
Post by Abby Normal on Jul 11, 2011 10:43:07 GMT -5
I think it's worth noting that this bank would have been an old WAMU that was taken over by Chase. We have an account that fell into this category. I can't tell you the number of times I go into the branch and have problems with the tellers because of the "new" chase policies. Even though it's been over two years. I don't think everything has converted yet.
So between that, a Cashiers check on the bank but not drawn at the branch, and presentation by someone who no longer has an account, I can see where there COULD be some confusion. I'm in in way defending Chase, but I could see where there might have been a question on the part of the original teller. However, by the second day, they should have been able to verify the check. Claiming forgery isn't excusable. And I think he has a great case against the police dept since the bank called them and said there was no basis for the charges.
|
|
alabamagal
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 11:30:29 GMT -5
Posts: 8,121
|
Post by alabamagal on Jul 11, 2011 11:23:23 GMT -5
Chase was definitely in the wrong here, but I don't get the part about how this guy, who had bounced checks, apparently has no liquid money available and a temproary job buying a house. I think there is more to this story that we are not hearing about.
But Chase was still wrong to treat the guy like this.
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Jul 11, 2011 12:03:53 GMT -5
Bank branches rarely communicate with each other, and getting any info from corporate offices is like a DMV office trying to get info from the DOT ...most likely the bank branch/corp office that sent him the check didn't contact the people at the bank branch he was trying to deposit the check into in a timely manner. So what the bank had was a Chase check that they didn't recognize (forgeries are quite common), no one would tell them it was a legitimate check, and the person cashing it has a history of overdrawing his account (which is a HUGE red flag for forgery). So, IMO, there are no innocent parties involved here...just chalk it up to being a huge, confusing mess and they should all move on with their lives. And before you bash the banks and cry a tear for the "victim" just remember: if the "victim" hadn't had a history of overdrawing his account, this situation would never have occurred. My biggest question from this article though: if this person had an issue with overdrawn accounts, how the hell was he able to buy a house and get the rebate???
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 11, 2011 12:31:19 GMT -5
Bank branches rarely communicate with each other, and getting any info from corporate offices is like a DMV office trying to get info from the DOT ...most likely the bank branch/corp office that sent him the check didn't contact the people at the bank branch he was trying to deposit the check into in a timely manner. So what the bank had was a Chase check that they didn't recognize (forgeries are quite common), no one would tell them it was a legitimate check, and the person cashing it has a history of overdrawing his account (which is a HUGE red flag for forgery). So, IMO, there are no innocent parties involved here...just chalk it up to being a huge, confusing mess and they should all move on with their lives. And before you bash the banks and cry a tear for the "victim" just remember: if the "victim" hadn't had a history of overdrawing his account, this situation would never have occurred. My biggest question from this article though: if this person had an issue with overdrawn accounts, how the hell was he able to buy a house and get the rebate??? Sorry, Chase had no business having the guy arrested unless they KNEW the check was a forgery. Secondly, Chase was required, by law, to send the guy another check within a certain time period. They did not. Thirdly, the Chase investigator who determined that the check was valid, left a voice mail, knowing the guy was being held wrongly. Left a VOICE MAIL during regular business hours. They could have easily talked to a person and had him released that day. Couldn't be bothered. Chase is dead wrong on at least three counts. Chase is in the wrong here
|
|
Clever Username
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 27, 2011 14:15:59 GMT -5
Posts: 1,313
|
Post by Clever Username on Jul 11, 2011 13:05:34 GMT -5
It amuses me that the article is hell bent on beating the worn out drum of the "Evil Bank." It sounds like Chase's suspicions were not unfounded, $600 in fees means he's bounced a lot of checks. Based on that the LOCAL POLICE, Not Chase, chose to arrest him. The police do not work for Chase. The police chose to jail him. That jailing lead to his car being towed... why not ask someone to move it? It sounds like Chase was working on DEFENDING him updating the cops as they learned about the validity of the check.
|
|
Abby Normal
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 12:31:49 GMT -5
Posts: 3,501
|
Post by Abby Normal on Jul 11, 2011 13:11:10 GMT -5
But the "Evil Bank" should never have notified the police in the first place, since it was a valid check.
|
|
jkapp
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 23, 2010 12:05:08 GMT -5
Posts: 5,416
|
Post by jkapp on Jul 11, 2011 13:35:00 GMT -5
Bank branches rarely communicate with each other, and getting any info from corporate offices is like a DMV office trying to get info from the DOT ...most likely the bank branch/corp office that sent him the check didn't contact the people at the bank branch he was trying to deposit the check into in a timely manner. So what the bank had was a Chase check that they didn't recognize (forgeries are quite common), no one would tell them it was a legitimate check, and the person cashing it has a history of overdrawing his account (which is a HUGE red flag for forgery). So, IMO, there are no innocent parties involved here...just chalk it up to being a huge, confusing mess and they should all move on with their lives. And before you bash the banks and cry a tear for the "victim" just remember: if the "victim" hadn't had a history of overdrawing his account, this situation would never have occurred. My biggest question from this article though: if this person had an issue with overdrawn accounts, how the hell was he able to buy a house and get the rebate??? Sorry, Chase had no business having the guy arrested unless they KNEW the check was a forgery. Secondly, Chase was required, by law, to send the guy another check within a certain time period. They did not. Thirdly, the Chase investigator who determined that the check was valid, left a voice mail, knowing the guy was being held wrongly. Left a VOICE MAIL during regular business hours. They could have easily talked to a person and had him released that day. Couldn't be bothered. Chase is dead wrong on at least three counts. Chase is in the wrong here Sorry, but the information they had was a suspiciously large check to someone with a history of being overdrawn. Chase did not arrest him - they called the police and the police chose to arrest him (probably more to do with the person's actions while the police were there). The article isn't very detailed, but the police won't arrest someone because a bank teller tells them they think the person has a forged check - the police most likely showed up at which time the guy became belligerent. (Understandably so, but when the cops show up its time to keep cool, not blow your top). Now I will agree that the Chase investigator should have followed up and not just left a voicemail - however, just because the person was handcuffed and taken from the bank does not necessarily mean the police were holding him (and the Chase investigator would not know either way). So the investigator may have notified the police officer that the check was valid, but probably did not know the guy was being held in jail so did not pursue it further. Hindsight being 20/20, yes more could have been done. And the biggest hindsight: maybe the guy shouldn't have kept overdrawing his account??? Maybe? Again, that being the catalyst of this entire issue...
|
|
pepper112765
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 9, 2011 15:55:30 GMT -5
Posts: 1,812
|
Post by pepper112765 on Jul 11, 2011 14:46:54 GMT -5
His lawyer knows he has no case and I'm sure there is a serious "other side of the story". They just tainted the jury pool, so the lawyer already knows he needs to SETTLE. It is purely being done to cheat Chase out some money (Realize I don't like Chase either but let's be fair). Personally, I can easily see how he was flagged. All he had to do was demand cash on the bank check at the counter. Hell, I'm white and had problems with my 1st time homebuyer credit check (a federal check). I stopped by the credit union and was going to just have it put against the mortgage. The clerk said that was not recommended and I should put it into my regular account for 1-2 months until it clears (I said it was a federal IRS check, it's going to clear). She pulled pulled up the rest of my accounts, said since I had a high enough balance on a CD she could apply it to the mortgage that day, but if it bounced, the CD would be broken for the balance and the penalty for breaking the CD would be assessed. Turns out there has been tons of fraud around the 1st time home buyer credit. He had a history of bad checks. Chase didn't arrest him, the POLICE DID (Chase did their job by calling the police to determine the next step). Chase should pay NOTHING. Chase worked to determine validity and then called the contact provided by the police. Sorry people, but his only case is against the police, who clearly had just cause to arrest him, otherwise his lawyer would be suing them. His payment from the credit was "direct deposited" into the closed Chase account. Now, if the account was truly closed, Chase should have rejected the funds, but they wanted their money so they "reopened" his account to take the fees owed. They then send him a cashier's check for the balance. I believe a little investigation or reading the notes on someone's account would have been in order and this situation would never have happened. Or, better yet, some lazy ass at Chase could have written a letter explaining the chain of events, with a direct contact and phone number enclosed with the check so that he could have taken that to the bank with him, since being black and of Nigerian descent automatically makes you a scam artist.
|
|
Gardening Grandma
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 13:39:46 GMT -5
Posts: 17,962
|
Post by Gardening Grandma on Jul 12, 2011 10:00:52 GMT -5
Follow up: Chase has quietly settled with the guy (smart move) "Chase changes procedures after mistake lands customer in jail Monday, Chase Media Relations issued this statement:
“We have resolved the situation amicably. We deeply regret what happened to Mr. Njoku and have apologized to him. Chase has already changed its procedures in branches to avoid situations like this.”
Njoku’s Seattle attorney, Felix Luna, would not elaborate on the terms of the settlement. However, before the settlement was reached, he told the KING 5 Investigators that Njoku was seeking an apology, financial compensation and changes in bank procedures.
“Ikenna is very happy with the resolution,” said Luna. "www.king5.com/news/investigators/Chase-changes-procedures-after-mistake-lands-customer-in-jail-125381223.html
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 12, 2011 10:03:36 GMT -5
I'll bet he is.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 16, 2024 9:10:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 13:16:27 GMT -5
How would they know where his family was from? Accents, that's how. If you live in an area with a large community of any minority you will be able to tell from how they speak. Sometimes how they dress too. Waiting for a bus yesterday, I was able to immediately spot someone from the West Indies because her beautiful hand-crafted dress was so distinctively styled (how I wish it were mine.) Recent arrivals from Africa also tend to look physically different from tenth generation descents of Africans here too due to some of the more unpleasant legacies of the past. If he was born here, like the article states, he would not have an accent.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,869
|
Post by zibazinski on Jul 12, 2011 13:36:22 GMT -5
Really? I was born here as was my mother and we both have accents.
|
|