Acceptable compromises

[raeoflyte]

Lot's of good ideas. Since your dh doesn't want to cut groceries, eating out, and entertainment, see if there is anything he doesn't mind cutting. Can you drop every other week on your cleaning person? Then the big stuff is still done and you're just spot cleaning in between. Can you drop the gym membership in the summer/fall and ride bikes as a family instead? When winter comes around see if you think you two will use it and maybe add it back then?

I think even if you wait you'll be okay. Have a goal that when everything is paid off then you'll split your prior debt payment 3 ways retirement, EF savings, and family fun money. Then there is something to look forward to and hopefully you're less likely to backslide again.

And good for you for paying $45,000 off! That takes guts, and being able to face the beast again is impressive.

[muttleynfelix]

Jul 5, 2011 7:22:17 GMT -5 daisylu said:

Jul 5, 2011 6:38:45 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

If that budget is what you are actually spending, then I would keep on that path and just work to stay on budget.

I see two reasons to make adjustments:

Emergency savings $220
Retirement savings $400

Both of these monthly contributions are too low, IMO. Unless the EF is already at a comfortable level - then I could see getting a break there. But if that is all of the retirement contributions for 2 people making ~$115,000/year, I would beef that up.

Also, the $200/month from the govt is not going to last much longer for them.

Right, but they right now they are putting $650 to debt repayment, not counting vehicles. That will be gone in 2 years. Plus another $450 on the vehicle, plus daycare will go down. It isn't a perfect budget and they could cut things and they know it. The question is, is that what they are really spending.

[trimommy]

Jul 5, 2011 7:26:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

How big is your house? How long does it take you to thoroughly clean it? Does she bring supplies or do you pay for them? My rule was to pay no more than $20 per hour for a housekeeper and for me to totally clean my house, 3 floors, 3 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, took me 4 hours so I would not pay a PROFESSIONAL more than that because I felt they should be more organized and faster than I was. I was always quoted $65-$75 with them using their own supplies and I was totally happy with that. 2400 sq ft house but the 3 floors was a PITA. I'm sure there was a PITA charge thrown in!!!! My girlfriend cut hers to just doing floors and bathrooms and saved half the money so now is paying $50 every 2 weeks but she has a HUGE house on one level, though.

We have a ~2000sqft raised ranch that takes her 4 hours to clean. We pay her $20/hr and she comes every other week. I feel she does a better job than I would do myself, plus it allows me more time to relax with the kids. I also felt resentment toward my husband before we had the cleaner because I didn't feel the responsibility to clean the house was shared equally. We would argue about neither of us appreciating what the other person was doing. Now we pay someone to do it for us and just spot-clean in between. It's worked very well for us so far (if the consensus is that we can afford it).

[trimommy]

Jul 5, 2011 10:51:32 GMT -5 muttleynfelix said:

Jul 5, 2011 7:22:17 GMT -5 daisylu said:

I see two reasons to make adjustments:



Both of these monthly contributions are too low, IMO. Unless the EF is already at a comfortable level - then I could see getting a break there. But if that is all of the retirement contributions for 2 people making ~$115,000/year, I would beef that up.

Also, the $200/month from the govt is not going to last much longer for them.

Right, but they right now they are putting $650 to debt repayment, not counting vehicles. That will be gone in 2 years. Plus another $450 on the vehicle, plus daycare will go down. It isn't a perfect budget and they could cut things and they know it. The question is, is that what they are really spending.

I agree with Daisylu and Muttleynfelix. We are not saving enough for retirement (although that $400 is on top of my husbands automatic pension contributions). Our EF sucks because we've never really had a chance to build one, since we've been paying off debt for so many years. I put $50 a week away and we've been okay so far - we are well insured with two very stable jobs, so I try not to dwell on this too much.

My plan is to jack up our savings as soon as the debt is paid off. We are also both due for raises this year, and that will go straight to savings as well.

I track all our expenses in Mint. We hit our budget more often than not. However, Muttleynfelix is right on the money that sometimes that is not what we really spend. My husband is a generous gift-giver with his family. I also mentioned we took a family vacation and overspent on some furniture. Those are the items that put us into debt. I feel terrible about it and know that we need to change our behaviours, but my husband is only willing to do so much.

I know we will pay off the debt - is it really so terrible to take 18 months to do it instead of 6? It's a relatively small amount at negligible interest. I hate that it hangs over our head, but I also hate feeling like it pits us against each other. We are a team and my teammate doesn't want to sacrifice himself to win. At what point do I need to respect that more than the monetary value at stake?

[DVM gone riding]

its not so terrible to take 18mos instead of 6, esp at the rates you are talking, what can be terrible and would destroy you eventually is not controlling the cause of getting back into debt so that it becomes a vicious cycle

[phil5185]

and overspent on some furniture. Those are the items that put us into debt.

And it was your dh that insisted on buying new furniture? LOL - I can't remember a time when I insisted that my dw & I spend a whole bunch on new furniture. (Of course we've only been married for 42 yrs, maybe that is yet to happen?)

is it really so terrible to take 18 months to do it instead of 6? It's a relatively small amount at negligible interest.

It isn't the interest that is the problem - it is that you freely spend money that you haven't earned yet. That will keep in a paycheck-to-paycheck existence forever.

[trimommy]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear - this is not all my husband's fault. I picked out the expensive dining set and we talked about the pros and cons of buying it. We decided to go for it on impulse - yes, it was a bad move.

I really feel like we have more or less controlled our overspending and now it is a matter of repaying the debt that our previous overspending incurred. I would like to pay it off ASAP but that would mean cutting way back in areas my husband is no longer willing to compromise. I also agree with previous posters that it puts us at risk of continuing the feast/famine cycle.

I think this thread has helped me realize that the best way to permanently address our spending is to make sustainable changes. I am not going to make sustainable changes by making my husband miserable, rather I should aim to pay down the debt with a plan for spending that can be continued going forward (and redirect former debt repayment money to savings).

Thank you for your input and advice!

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I really like how you are able to own that part of it is your choices also.

I know how you feel. My husband also doesn't like to make cuts. We are participants in both "lifestyle creep" and the "oh, we can afford the payments."

Good luck to you!!!

[msgumby]

You said a lot of your problems are these big one-time expenses that you went into debt for (not the day to day spending). I think your budget needs to include "short-term" savings. Money that could be used for a vacation or a dining set or car repairs. You need to set aside money in advance for these things and get used to thinking that if you don't have enough in that account to cover X, you can't afford to do it yet. If something comes up and you realize you will need 3k saved up in 6 months, you can temporarily adjust your budget to make minor cuts for those 6 months to save up for that in advance.

I agree that you appear to be in a cycle and need to break out of it. In order to do that, you need to have an account to cover these one-time expenses and you need to have the mentality that it's not ok to get into debt for these things. My mom behaves very similarily - her budget balances monthly, but not annually because of the extras that she gets.

I think the issue is less how long it will take you to pay off, but more that you need to make a realistic plan to live off of that won't get you back into this hole down the line.

[formerexpat]

$900 worth of groceries & eating out - way out of line for 2 people, since your children aren't eating all that much at their young age.

If you keep to this budget, you won't be too bad after you pay off your debt. Shifting your debt payment and car payment [$1.1k in total] towards savings would mean that you're saving $2,155 [or 32%] of your net income.

Maybe the answer is that you cut the cleaning service until you're at this point, because this money can go towards paying down that debt right now? A cleaning service is a good luxury to have - when you can afford it.

The life insurance premiums also look high. What are your coverages / terms?

[Deleted]

Could you have the cleaning person come in less often? That might cut a little. That life insurance seems high, my DH was quote $100/year for $100,000, how much do you have?

[motherto2]

boy I understand the feast and famine thing! My sympathies to you ;D. One thing that you could be proactive about is to research free or little cost entertainment for you and dh, and then all of you together in your area. This would be a way to keep from spending money at the movies, etc. BTW, do your young kids really get that much out of going to the movies? Mine didn't at that age - they were just as happy watching something at home where they didn't have to sit still or not make noise. There should be a lot of ways to cut the grocery bill. Also, do you have things like Groupon or Living social where you could buy discounted items for eating out or other activities? Just one more thing. do your cc's add back the interest that you should have paid if you don't pay the card off before the deadline? Alot of cards will add all the interest back in if it's not paid off.

I totally agree with having a cleaning service. I totally wished I could have afforded to have that when my kids were younger. Heck, I wish I could have that now and I don't have the excuse of little kids, busy life! Good luck~

[trimommy]

We pay $78 for two $1M policies. I am pretty sure they are 10-year term - although it might be 20, I would have to check. We just upgraded last year. Before that we had a joint $500K policy and I wanted to go to $1M. I also didn't understand that a joint policy only pays once in the event of a double catastrophe, so we went separate. We had been quoted a lower amount, but the physical turned up slightly elevated cholesterol in my husband, so we got stuck at the last minute with the higher premium.

This reminds me that we were supposed to have him re-tested after one year to see if his levels were lower, in which case they would honour the original quote! Thanks again!

[hockeygrl]

I have to chime in - I totally understand and support your having a cleaning lady. Stretching your debt repayment out a few months is worth hanging on to her. We are exactly in that same situation - minus the CC debt, I guess, but my SL are only 2% interest, so we aren't racing to pay them off, and our car loan is less than 5%, so we are okay with the debt.

The point I'm making is, in the interest of spending more quality time with the kids and maintaining an acceptably clean house without underlying resentment and strife, the cleaning lady could be considered an investment in your family. 100% worth a couple of hundred a month. I know others disagree, but I'm telling you to keep her!

[Peace77]

I agree with cutting the amount spent on the cleaning service. Either have it done less frequently or have less work done so the charge is less.

You can make cuts without doing without. For example, instead of going to the movie theater, rent a redbox movie and have your own snacks at home. You get to see the same movie and are not deprived of entertainment.

Instead of going out for pizza, could you buy a fresh one and bake it at home?

Or, how about buying a rotisserie chicken, with mashed potatoes or potato salad and a salad or vegetable. It's more than doing it all yourself but much less than a restaurant dinner.

Do you have a crockpot? Throw the ingredients in the morning before going to work and you have a great dinner waiting for you when you get home.

Even counting the training pants, your grocery bill, is quite high. Can you buy what's on sale? You can check the store flyers online and plan your menu from the best deals.

[midjd]

Even counting the training pants, your grocery bill, is quite high. Can you buy what's on sale? You can check the store flyers online and plan your menu from the best deals.

This is great advice - by doing this and some minor couponing (I call it "coupon lite"), I've managed to cut our grocery bill (for 2 adults and 2 pets) from $600+ per month to about $350 - $400 a month. Combining coupons with sales is key. Cutting the grocery bill is also a good compromise if your DH doesn't want to cut eating out or entertainment.

I say keep the cleaning lady - you can easily shave her cost off your monthly grocery bill with proper planning.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"The question is, is that what they are really spending.":::...

This is the most important factor and it is good to hear that you track it in mint, and are on par most months. The bit about generous gift giving is probably an annoying argument too since I'm sure the "I work a job I hate" thing comes up. For the record, he has a darn good point and so you have to do your best not to challenge that one directly because those conversations never go the way you want them to. You have to come at that one from a different angle.

...:::"I also mentioned we took a family vacation and overspent on some furniture. Those are the items that put us into debt. I feel terrible about it and know that we need to change our behaviours, but my husband is only willing to do so much.":::...

You sound a lot like my DF and I a couple of years ago. Although there was some slight overspending, it was the one-off biggies that tipped the scales. When we moved into our house, we'd go a few months being on target, then need something to the tune of several thousand. We too do not want to cut everything down to the bare bones, but thanks to fixing our bad habits and some good raises, we'll be OK.

...:::"but that would mean cutting way back in areas my husband is no longer willing to compromise.":::...

Is it possible that you are ALREADY at your "compromise place" and that pushing further is just going to irritate your husband? Did he give up a lot more than he wanted to in order to get at the levels you are at? Or did he just make a few cuts that he was OK with and then put his foot in the sand.

I am not saying you have no right to get your way, I am saying you have to consider what you already got, and what HIS feelings are. You are unhappy because you aren't where you want to be. But he may ALSO unhappy because HE isn't where he wants to be.

A lot of women fail to realize that they project an "all outcomes lead to me being unhappy" vibe. I'm sure he already feels frustrated and ashamed at the debt, and feels the pinching reminders every time the sacrifices come up. If you are not careful, he may backslide because why sacrifice AND have an unhappy wife. If you are going to be unhappy whether he sacrifices or not, he might as well not bother with the sacrifice.

[8 Bit WWBG]

As for all the posts about money vs time (the cleaning lady in this case) I also vote for KEEPING the cleaning lady and making up the difference by trimming elsewhere.

I have told DF that I am absolutely done with cheaping out or DIY unless the savings are SUBSTANTIAL and the time is reasonable. This lesson comes up constantly, but one apt example is home repair. It didn't cost that much more to hire painters vs. doing it ourselves, but the result was better, and it was done in a day.

If you are already fighting about sacrifices, you don't want to add the "I worked all day I don't want to clean" fights back into the mix.

[skubikky]

Jul 5, 2011 1:37:22 GMT -5 @patstab said:

If you can afford the cleaning person keep it. In looking back at all the hours I worked then tried to come home and keep a clean house, I wish I had just hired someone. I could have spent more time with the kids instead of exhausted and yelling all the time. Some things are worth more. Cut the clothing if need be but keep the lady.

Pat...gotta say...I didn't expect that response from you as typically, you take a hard line on wants vs. needs....kudos.