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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 4, 2011 22:49:16 GMT -5
The War At Home
Written by and sung by Josh Brogan at a Capital 4th in Washington DC.
Fallen brother he’s a fallen husband He’s about to be woken in his hospital bed He doesn’t want to rest He just wants to run And he’s tired of being told that he’s the lucky one Caped crusader she’s newborn leader But you should see her when her daughter’s on the phone And she wipes the tears away And she laces up because there’s still hell to pay And it sure feels like hell today And she says You see these hands they’re bruised and brown They’re yours alone Hold on love we’re still going down Hold on love we’re still fighting at home The war at home Innocence behind his broken expression He’s a child of mercy he’s our unlearned lesson And he’s trying to wake up From this wilderness his world has now become He’s reaching out to those he’s running from And he says You see these hands they’re bruised and brown They’re yours alone Hold on love we’re still going down Hold on love we’re still fighting at home The war at home And it’s (one step forward and two steps back) This is all who are marching (one step forward two steps back) This is young and old (one step forward two steps back) Through the void of silence You are not alone You see these hands their million strong They are yours now Hold on love we’re all going down
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 5, 2011 0:56:35 GMT -5
"My wonderful DH will be under the High 3 Plan. He will be "retirement eligible" in 3 years for a 20-year "active duty" retirement (but he's been in longer since many of his years were years spent as a "traditional Guardsman.") At the 20-year Active Duty Mark (July 2, 2014), if he retired then he would receive 50% of his base pay. His hope is to stay in 6 years past that point, which would let him retire with 65% of his base pay ~ each additional year served adds 2.5%. (Well, his base pay averaged for the three years before he retires.) If all goes as planned, when he's finally done 9 years from now, he will be 54 and will have served in the Air National Guard for 37 years."
That's still very generous. As a civilian I'll retire after 40 years at 63 and only get 44% of my high three. But it's my understanding military don't get TSP matching so that's a big chunk of money right right there. Also we're supposedly going to see SS, but I doubt that will do much in 2050. Does the military pay into or receive SS?
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 4:06:29 GMT -5
The military will gets screw on this (yet again) for two basic reasons. 1. Their votes don't count enough for any politician to cater to them & 2. Nobody really cares that much who's vote is important to politicians.
How are the military getting screwed? Tricare enrollment fees have not raised since 1996?
And the military have no political cover? Really? Ever hear of AUSA? MOAA? (I am sure there is more)
Here is what will happen- the gravy train is ending. First state / city workers with their budget cuts will slowly end pensions, than later Police and fire dept will end their pensions too, Military will be last because of the publics POV on them, but eventually their pensions will go to. Simply put THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY. Pensions & golden bennies are not sustainable for anyone.
Ideally Congress / POTUS etc should lose their retirement and bennies first, but somehow I don't see that happen.
Trust me this will happen, it may be 25- 50 years out, but these things are going away (just like they did in the civilian sector)
In the meantime, the fact that someone suggests modestly hiking some golden military bennies in times of dire financial / budget times is not unreasonable IMO
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 9:29:31 GMT -5
The military will gets screw on this (yet again) for two basic reasons. 1. Their votes don't count enough for any politician to cater to them & 2. Nobody really cares that much who's vote is important to politicians.How are the military getting screwed? Tricare enrollment fees have not raised since 1996? And the military have no political cover? Really? Ever hear of AUSA? MOAA? (I am sure there is more) Here is what will happen- the gravy train is ending. First state / city workers with their budget cuts will slowly end pensions, than later Police and fire dept will end their pensions too, Military will be last because of the publics POV on them, but eventually their pensions will go to. Simply put THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MONEY. Pensions & golden bennies are not sustainable for anyone. Ideally Congress / POTUS etc should lose their retirement and bennies first, but somehow I don't see that happen. Trust me this will happen, it may be 25- 50 years out, but these things are going away (just like they did in the civilian sector) In the meantime, the fact that someone suggests modestly hiking some golden military bennies in times of dire financial / budget times is not unreasonable IMO I don't see any problem with raising rates as long as "Means Testing" is applied...those receiving Tri Care who earn less than @$25,000.00 per year could have a hardship paying higher rates. Btw who gives a hoot about what Rummy has to say about Military Health Premiums??? He is about as popular as Roger Clemens or Barry Bonds to use a sports metaphor.. AUSA and/or MOAA don't write Defense Dept policy and doubt that they have much influence when Liberals vs Republicans are auguring about cuts in defense spending that is strictly political according to your congressmen or congresswomen's political views on this issue Liberals want @$100 billion in cuts and Conservatives want @$40 billion in cuts to the defense budget
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 9:35:45 GMT -5
I don't see any problem with raising rates as long as "Means Testing" is applied...those receiving Tri Care who earn less than @$25,000.00 per year could have a hardship paying higher rates.
why should "Means Testing" be applied? Unless the person is disabled or something due to government service.
If I do 20 yrs in the military and retire and then have a 2nd successful career, I should be "punished" (pay more for Tricare), than someone else who did 20 years and was not as successful with a 2nd career? Didn't we both do the same 20 years? shouldn't our benefit be based on that? Not what we do after we "retire"?
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 9:42:50 GMT -5
I don't see any problem with raising rates as long as "Means Testing" is applied...those receiving Tri Care who earn less than @$25,000.00 per year could have a hardship paying higher rates. why should "Means Testing" be applied? Unless the person is disabled or something due to government service. If I do 20 yrs in the military and retire and then have a 2nd successful career, I should be "punished" (pay more for Tricare), than someone else who did 20 years and was not as successful with a 2nd career? Didn't we both do the same 20 years? shouldn't our benefit be based on that? Not what we do after we "retire"? Means Testing is just my suggestion for those who may have a hardship being hit with higher rates...It is used by the Veterans Administration Medical Care so why not for TriCare?? Wouldn't the same or similar rules apply?? Here's what Rummy said in case you didn't read the OP: The greatest economies can be found in areas that contain the greatest political peril: military health care and personne. … Individual military retirees under 65 currently pay less than $20 in monthly premiums for the Department of Defense’s health plan, called Tricare. The average monthly premium for their private-sector counterparts exceeds $500. Individual contributions will need to increase over time to keep up with spiraling health care costs,” writes Rumsfeld, who served twice as Defense Secretary and ranks only behind Robert McNamara in terms of time served.
But making the wrong cuts could lead to profound regret, Rumsfeld said. “The false comfort provided by the end of the Cold War led the administrations of George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton to draw down the nation’s intelligence and military budgets. … Its consequences did not become starkly apparent until Sept. 11, and the resulting scramble to rebuild our capabilities in the months thereafter,” writes Rumsfeld.Read more: www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58190.html#ixzz1RF5hXpdP
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 9:49:11 GMT -5
"less than $20 in monthly premiums ?? Pharmaceutical costs could exceed that amount ...but if for some who are unemployed or homeless this rate increase would be a hardship
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 10:11:17 GMT -5
ok we were talking mostly about "retirees" in this thread. A retiree in the military = someone that gets a military pension. Even if "unemployed" or "homeless", they should be able to afford to pay some money for this.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 10:43:07 GMT -5
ok we were talking mostly about "retirees" in this thread. A retiree in the military = someone that gets a military pension. Even if "unemployed" or "homeless", they should be able to afford to pay some money for this. We got a letter from General Shinseki a few months ago who said in essence there would probably be increases for Veterans Health Care and he would keep us informed....I reposted his letter but I am sure you can find it on Google if you want to read what he said about this issue Re: higher health care costs for veterans ..and I doubt the General gives a dam about what Ole Rummy since it was him who forced General Shinseki to take early retirement since they clashed on troop strength in Iraq..
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 5, 2011 13:59:10 GMT -5
"My wonderful DH will be under the High 3 Plan. He will be "retirement eligible" in 3 years for a 20-year "active duty" retirement (but he's been in longer since many of his years were years spent as a "traditional Guardsman.") At the 20-year Active Duty Mark (July 2, 2014), if he retired then he would receive 50% of his base pay. His hope is to stay in 6 years past that point, which would let him retire with 65% of his base pay ~ each additional year served adds 2.5%. (Well, his base pay averaged for the three years before he retires.) If all goes as planned, when he's finally done 9 years from now, he will be 54 and will have served in the Air National Guard for 37 years." That's still very generous. As a civilian I'll retire after 40 years at 63 and only get 44% of my high three. But it's my understanding military don't get TSP matching so that's a big chunk of money right right there. Also we're supposedly going to see SS, but I doubt that will do much in 2050. Does the military pay into or receive SS? It is generous, but it also factors in the fact that he spends months and years away from home in combat zones where people are actively trying to kill him. The military does not get TSP matching like civilians. My wonderful DH pays into SS. (EDITED ... he does qualify)
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 5, 2011 14:02:41 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 14:11:35 GMT -5
And I should point out that 65% of my wonderful DH's "base pay" doesn't mean 65% of his current paycheck check, since a lot of his compensation isn't classified as "base pay" (BAH, BAS, flight pay). So, in reality, he will probably be collecting less than 40% of his "total pay" after he retires. That is correct base pay excludes other payments you receive while on active duty status... and I was eligible for VA Medical so elected to go with it.. I can't speak to TriCare but do think the VA Medical Care is very good...however they are becoming overwhelmed lately with so many new applicants and that trend is expected to continue..
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 14:13:46 GMT -5
My wonderful DH pays into SS, but will only be eligible to collect a small percentage since he will be getting a military pension ~ I'm not sure how little.
who told you this? you can get normal social security. Why would a military retiree not be eligible for SS? Link?
It is generous, but it also factors in the fact that he spends months and years away from home in combat zones where people are actively trying to kill him.
No, in theory, it factors in that there is a CHANCE he may spend months and years from home in combat zones, remember before Afghanistan and Iraq things were relatively quiet on the military front for a while.
Also contrary to popular op pinion, military people are paid pretty well when you consider things like tax exempt pays (BAH, BAS, per diem for TDYs, DLA and PCS pays, COLAs, combat pays / combat tax exclusion, etc.) and free medical & free dental care for the service member, and free medical care for family members (regardless of how freaking many they pop put) while on active duty. As well as other numerous benefits on Active Duty. I would respectfully argue that the "risk" of the service member is already priced into their current compensation (even without combat pay / if he/ she never deployed) and benefits when you compare them with their civilian peers (I know, I know there is no such thing as a "true" civilian peer, yeah right- I guess all those contractors and GS civilians down range are a figment of my imagination).
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 14:13:40 GMT -5
This message has been deleted. double post
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 14:22:32 GMT -5
It is generous, but it also factors in the fact that he spends months and years away from home in combat zones where people are actively trying to kill him.
Give no quarter, ask no quarter ...
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 5, 2011 14:37:37 GMT -5
"And I should point out that 65% of my wonderful DH's "base pay" doesn't mean 65% of his current paycheck check, since a lot of his compensation isn't classified as "base pay" (BAH, BAS, flight pay). So, in reality, he will probably be collecting less than 40% of his "total pay" after he retires." Here's a link to the 2011 military base pay www.savingtoinvest.com/2010/05/2010-2011-military-pay-chart.htmlI have no idea what rank your husband is, but with 26 years of experience I'll assume for a moment he'll retire as an O6 with 26 years of experience. His base pay would be $10,188 a month or 122256 a year (hardly chump change). Including all the "bonuses" he would make like combat pay, hazard pay, tax exemptions it will be more than that. But that's about in line with an experienced GS 15, which an O6 is roughly equivalent to in civilian service. 65% of 122256 a year is 79466.4 a year, which is enough to buy you a very nice lifestyle in a low to medium COLA area. It's more than I make as a mid grade civilian for a full time salary. He definitly won't need a second career. I know your husband will retire in his mid 50's, but it's possible someone could become an officer at 22, work for 26 years, retire as an O6 at 48 and make that pension for an additional 40 years or more. That's like paying someone full time for an additional career. That also includes the COLA and benefits like VA and TRICARE, not to mention other perks like commisary privlages. But not everyone makes it that high, let's assume someone spends 20 years in and retires as an E-6. Their base pay is 3533 a month, or 42396 a year. They get 50% of that for the rest of their life or 21198 a year. That's not much and the person would probably have to get another career afterward, but they would likely be in their late 30's or early 40's. But all that money still adds up since they could collect it for almost 50 years or more. They'd still get all the bennies other retirees get. I guess the points I'm trying to make are: 1. Military pay isn't bad at all. You'll never be rich but I think most'll do well, I don't understand the argument that military pay is low so they have to offer good bennies to make up for it. You show me where you can graduate from high school, not go to college and make 50k+/year with experience, retire at 39 and get 25k a year for the rest of your life. 2. I'm NOT saying take away all the benfits or reduce their pay or anything. I'm not saying they don't work hard or officers don't deserve their high pay and bennies (I know to get to high ranks it requires a LOT of skills, education, and dedication). All I'm saying is military do very well, aren't hurting and shouldn't be looked at like a sacred cow that should be above needed cuts to help balance the budget. I think making sensible cuts, reforms, and raising some premiums would go a long way to help.
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 14:40:36 GMT -5
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 5, 2011 14:43:11 GMT -5
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 14:50:18 GMT -5
Just remember money can't bring you happiness.... And some of us "Grunts" were not happy campers for a lot of years no matter what we were paid for our camping trips in some horrific and God forsaken places.. I am still not that happy about it but getting better... ;D
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 5, 2011 15:02:17 GMT -5
"what exactly is your point with posting the pay chart?"
Sorry, I was making my point by modifying the post. Please go re read my post.
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Post by robbase on Jul 5, 2011 15:05:48 GMT -5
glad to see that I generally agree with you
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 15:08:56 GMT -5
"what exactly is your point with posting the pay chart?" Sorry, I was making my point by modifying the post. Please go re read my post. I never bitched about the pay but did bitch about some other things until I was told in no uncertain terms "stop bitching or else"....and didn't want to find out what "or else" meant.. And IMHO Warrant Officer is the best rank in the mlitary..
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 5, 2011 16:37:40 GMT -5
"And IMHO Warrant Officer is the best rank in the mlitary.."
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I could never understand exactly what a warrent officer was. Officers are typically college educated professionals and enlisted typically learn a trade. From what I've read, warrent officers are learn very specific and highly sought after trades. They need to be approved by congress and get a lot of respect from both enlisted and officers.
Can anyone clarify what a WO is?
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 5, 2011 16:43:21 GMT -5
"It is generous, but it also factors in the fact that he spends months and years away from home in combat zones where people are actively trying to kill him."
Your DH does, but the vast majority don't. I've worked with a lot of military, and virtually all of them work a regular job, 9-5, at something they could do on the civilian side. Granted I"ve only worked stateside and I'm sure it's different when they're deployed. My overall impression though was that they're ordinary, every day people doing regular jobs. Honestly some of the military I interacted with were jerks, but some were really nice and friendly. I respect what they do, but I also don't think they're above critisism in how they handle things.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 5, 2011 19:18:08 GMT -5
Can anyone clarify what a WO is?
Basically a WO is a Warrant Officer, and a CWO is a Chief Warrant Officer. The WOs usually come from the enlisted Staff NCO Ranks but don't go through OCS(Officer Candidate School) ..Most of the WOs or CWOs that I knew were not college grads but had been in the military for @15 - @ 20 years and were selected by an Officer Review Board after completing extensive testing in their fields or MOS...
They have a warrant instead of a commission but are "Officers" as opposed to "Non Commissioned Officers" and also included among the officer ranks on shore or onboard ship...
A CWO is also a Commissioned Officer but a WO is not a Commissioned Officer and usually there's very little difference except for pay, but their responsibilities are about the same in some highly technical or specialized area... In the Marines the armories were run by WOs or CWOs and were labeled as Gunners..Or Chief Gunner..
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 5, 2011 22:13:29 GMT -5
This message has been deleted.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 5, 2011 22:45:33 GMT -5
" I have no idea what rank your husband is, but with 26 years of experience I'll assume for a moment he'll retire as an O6 with 26 years of experience. Actually, our best case scenario has him retiring as an 05 due to a variety of reasons based on his assignment and where he's stationed. (And I should note he spent 9-10 years enlisted before getting commissioned as an officer.) I'm not complaining about his pay.... I was merely pointing out that what he does can be significantly different than what a desk-bound civilian employee does. And as to deployments, he's already been deployed 7 times to Iraq, with deployment #8 coming up next month. At this point, we're not optimistic about a reduction in deployment tempo for him.
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❤ mollymouser ❤
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Post by ❤ mollymouser ❤ on Jul 5, 2011 22:53:15 GMT -5
My wonderful DH pays into SS, but will only be eligible to collect a small percentage since he will be getting a military pension ~ I'm not sure how little. who told you this? you can get normal social security. Why would a military retiree not be eligible for SS? Link? I was mistaken, he will get SS. (I was thinking of people with state and local pensions, who only collect reduced SS)
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Post by robbase on Jul 6, 2011 10:17:53 GMT -5
so now that we all agree they should raise the rates on military retirees like Rumsfield and Gates propose, we can now direct our attention to other pressing topics.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 6, 2011 10:25:34 GMT -5
so now that we all agree they should raise the rates on military retirees like Rumsfield and Gates propose, we can now direct our attention to other pressing topics.
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