Career Question: Lazy or Smart?

[yogiii]

I just want to be the person that higher ups can come to knowing they will get a quality product. I have no desire to be management or a leader. I feel like the kind of position I want, which I guess I would define as technical, isn't really valued. I feel that people always want you to be a leader or be a manager. I'm always thinking, if everyone is a leader, who will do all the work?

[qofcc]

I just want to be the person that higher ups can come to knowing they will get a quality product. I have no desire to be management or a leader.



I've made a career out of that

[yogiii]

Jun 21, 2011 8:28:19 GMT -5 qofcc said:

I just want to be the person that higher ups can come to knowing they will get a quality product. I have no desire to be management or a leader.



I've made a career out of that

You give me hope! There are a few people that I've seen do it. I know they are taking a salary hit, but that's worth it to me. I don't want to be tied down to a blackberry. One angle I'm trying now is making myself available for a variety of different tasks, this way I'm well rounded and someone that can be pulled quickly from one thing to another as a filler. I'm hoping this helps me out.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Moving up the top of the chain where I am at now means leaving the bench. I LOVE benchwork, it's the reason I got into this profession.

[soon2bmomof3]

I don't have the ambition to move through the ranks as some of these career women at work. I admire their ambition and drive to be one of those few women up there, but I don't want to be them.

[thyme4change]

I feel like the kind of position I want, which I guess I would define as technical, isn't really valued. I feel that people always want you to be a leader or be a manager. I'm always thinking, if everyone is a leader, who will do all the work?

I agree, but a lot of people get really, really bored doing the same thing, year after year, so they figure you will only be a good person to have around for a few years and then you will go searching for something stimulating. And, the most valuable employee is someone who gives quality answers, and then moves up and teaches the 2 or 4 or 6 people below them to also give quality answers. Now you aren't 1 quality person, you are 7 quality people. The multiplier is the value.

[yogiii]

thyme - I see your point. That is why I'm figuring that having a very broad range will help with this. We have good times and bad times, right now it is a bad time so we have lots of shifting and flux, lay offs etc. Being someone who can fill in the gaps, should be useful in another way. I'm not ruling out leading a small group working towards a technical goal, however, I don't want to be the paper-pusher leader or manager who is just in meetings or on conference calls all day and loses the ability to actually do the work.

[qofcc]

That is why I'm figuring that having a very broad range will help with this. We have good times and bad times, right now it is a bad time so we have lots of shifting and flux, lay offs etc. Being someone who can fill in the gaps, should be useful in another way.

That's the key, filling in the gaps, bringing in skills not usually associated with your job. I was the person in Marketing with database skills. Now I'm the person in Finance with a Marketing background and knowledge of legacy computer systems nobody has much interest in learning so they rely on me.

[share88]

They have flattened the structure so there is not much "up" in my department. Mostly you get titles and headaches but not more $. Lower level management may be paid less than "regular" employees.

[covikefan]

Came on the board to take a quick look during lunch and was shocked to see how many people are satisfied with their current job and don't want advancement! I have been with my company 16 years and have held 7 positions, currently a senior manager. I am always suprised by how many people want a higher salary but don't want to manage people - hiring and leading good people is where the value is for the company, and that is where the pay will go. Being good at your job and offering valuable support will only get you so far, at some point you will hit the pay ceiling for the position and the only way to make more is to take on supervising employees.

[thyme4change]

The people that care about moving up the ladder probably aren't the ones that sit around on this board during working hours.

[swamp]

Jun 21, 2011 14:58:46 GMT -5 @covikefan said:

Came on the board to take a quick look during lunch and was shocked to see how many people are satisfied with their current job and don't want advancement! I have been with my company 16 years and have held 7 positions, currently a senior manager. I am always suprised by how many people want a higher salary but don't want to manage people - hiring and leading good people is where the value is for the company, and that is where the pay will go. Being good at your job and offering valuable support will only get you so far, at some point you will hit the pay ceiling for the position and the only way to make more is to take on supervising employees.

Well aren't you special.

[tskeeter]

Lower level management may be paid less than "regular" employees.

This is really very common. Because the number of work hours expected of first line managers, and the fact that first line managers usually do not receive overtime pay, first line managers and lower level managers frequently find they took on a lot more aggravation for a lower annual income than they could earn as a hourly employee.

[maraqxa]

It all depends on your personality, there's no right or wrong. I think for the longest time there's been this mentality that if you are not continously moving up then you are not ambitious or don't care about work but that mentality has been changing.

I'm a manager. I just increased my pay around 25% 4 months ago. Do I work more hrs? Some more but is when I want to do it. The key is to have great people working for you and treat them well while also helping them climb the ladder if they want to. I try to get work done in the least amount of time possible, I try not to waste time or other people's time. I socialize but just enough to maintain the key relationships. I try not to log on on weekends and/or vacation, however, if there's something I need to get done then no big deal. I believe work/life balance is different for everyone.

Yes, there are politics to play but that's life. I figure if I'm going to have to spend 40+ hrs at work then I will try to do a great job at it. And honestly, it doesn't take that much to be a superstar in the workplace.

[qofcc]

I've been a supervisor/hiring manager of 1-3 office workers at several of my previous jobs and that's not a big deal. I've also been a direct adviser to top management at smaller companies. I just don't want to get into the "middle management" spot in a huge global company where you're not actually doing the projects, you're trying to push your goals on people in all areas of the company who may or may not give a flying f about your goals and may be around the world in different time zones and you have responsibility for your results but very little control over the people it will take to get those results if you can even figure out who the heck they are. And after a few years either you get promoted or you get fired or you hold on tight to your niche and kiss butt as much as possible and hope nobody takes it away from you. I was so happy when they hired someone to fill the middle management spot between me and my former supervisor. Whenever he talks about how hard it is I keep telling him, yes I know, I couldn't do it, that's why they hired you! I'm so thankful they never actually gave me the title for that job so I could stay in my current Analyst role and keep doing the work.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I get my fill of students during hte summer. To become a professor I would have to deal with them ALL THE TIME. I've realized that I just do not have the personality to deal with students.

Now running a lab I can do and have done when my boss was out of the country for several weeks. That doesn't bother me at all.

[happyscooter]

If you are management in a union based company, LOOK OUT! You have your employees filing grievances all of the time for something that you wrote them up for. Like being 15 minutes late to work every day for a week. So you write them up, they keep doing it, you suspend them for a day. They file a grievance, get their money back and they got a paid day off from work. Meanwhile the manager catches it from the union and his boss for not writing the employee up in a way that the union couldn't get their pay for them. And for that, the manager makes an extra $100.00 a week that he could make in overtime if he wasn't a manager.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2011 14:58:46 GMT -5 @covikefan said:

Came on the board to take a quick look during lunch and was shocked to see how many people are satisfied with their current job and don't want advancement! I have been with my company 16 years and have held 7 positions, currently a senior manager. I am always suprised by how many people want a higher salary but don't want to manage people - hiring and leading good people is where the value is for the company, and that is where the pay will go. Being good at your job and offering valuable support will only get you so far, at some point you will hit the pay ceiling for the position and the only way to make more is to take on supervising employees.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. That's more of a personality type thing I guess. Because I look at the lives of the people in higher roles in the company and I can't say it looks that appealing. Checking hte blackberry all the time, coming in on weekends, always putting out fires, and always traveling.

My wife gives kind of an interesting perspective because she's a teacher in a very nice area. She said the kids will open up, at times, about how their dads aren't around cause they are traveling. She does one paper around Christmas about something, can't remember the topic, and she said that kids will write about how they wish their dad didn't have to work so much. I don't know...that would make me pretty sad to hear that from my kids.

But if you can balance it, more power to you.

[bring in the new year]

For all of you who don't want to move up, I do understand.

But you need to look at people in your company doing comparable jobs and their ages. If you've got several people in their fifties, doing the same job they've done for the last 20 years and everyone's happy, then you may be able to do that.

If you're getting to be the oldest person at your level in your company and you hear complaints about people a few years older than you who "are not up to par,' then you need to start moving - either to a new company or to a new level.

I really do understand wanting to spend more time with the family, but job security is also usually a consideration. Some companies follow the shark rules - you're moving or you're dead (law firms, CPA firms etc.) Some are more like lumber companies - as long as it looks like you're growing and useful, they're patient. But you don't have to be growing by leaps & bounds. And some just track you into the type of job where they cap your pay, you're not eligible for bonuses and oh, btw, you're training every junior manager who can't find his backside with both hands to MANAGE you.

I also understand that the $10-$15k doesn't seem like it's worth the added responsibility. But it's a multiplier. They're going to get raises based on that extra $10k and possible job security.

It's not that I'm saying you have to be career driven. But if you chose not to be, you really have to look at what you want and where your company's at. You may need to look for a new job just to find a better fit.

(Doctor's offices btw used to be known for small stable employee bases where everyone did the exact same job they had done since they graduated high school or nursing school. For years and years and years)

[qofcc]

But you need to look at people in your company doing comparable jobs and their ages. If you've got several people in their fifties, doing the same job they've done for the last 20 years and everyone's happy, then you may be able to do that.

I had a discussion about that with my previous supervisor. At my level, there are a number of people who have been doing the same job for 10 - 20 years. We usually have skills/knowledge outside of our immediate area and a job that has some level of complication that would be difficult to train a replacement for and reputation for being a go-to person for different projects/departments. There are other people who are hired to come in at our level with the idea they'll be promoted to the next level of "middle management" soon. They are not usually given the jobs that take years to perfect and they're usually assigned to high profile teams or projects right away promoted within a couple of years. I've been given the impression that I can stay where I'm at and gradually take on more responsibility and pay and maybe move up within the current level and my job will be secure OR I can work on improving my managing BS skills and try out for the next level, but if I fail, it would be difficult to go back and I'd have a hard time finding another company to take me on at this rate of pay if I lost the job. So, I'm going to stay where I'm safe and comfortable.

[thyme4change]

Hey qofcc - how old are you?

[qofcc]

Hey qofcc - how old are you?

I'll be 42 this year same as you

[thyme4change]

You'll be entering as I'm leaving. I hope 43 is good. =)

[dancinmama]

Jun 22, 2011 9:23:45 GMT -5 @davebo said:

Jun 21, 2011 14:58:46 GMT -5 @covikefan said:

Came on the board to take a quick look during lunch and was shocked to see how many people are satisfied with their current job and don't want advancement! I have been with my company 16 years and have held 7 positions, currently a senior manager. I am always suprised by how many people want a higher salary but don't want to manage people - hiring and leading good people is where the value is for the company, and that is where the pay will go. Being good at your job and offering valuable support will only get you so far, at some point you will hit the pay ceiling for the position and the only way to make more is to take on supervising employees.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. That's more of a personality type thing I guess. Because I look at the lives of the people in higher roles in the company and I can't say it looks that appealing. Checking hte blackberry all the time, coming in on weekends, always putting out fires, and always traveling.

My wife gives kind of an interesting perspective because she's a teacher in a very nice area. She said the kids will open up, at times, about how their dads aren't around cause they are traveling. She does one paper around Christmas about something, can't remember the topic, and she said that kids will write about how they wish their dad didn't have to work so much. I don't know...that would make me pretty sad to hear that from my kids.

But if you can balance it, more power to you.

My DH didn't take that kind of a job until DS was a senior in high school.

[dancinmama]

DH's job has all the trappings that everyone has talked about here. He mentors those below him while putting out fires for the VP above him. He is constantly dealing with stop light charts and different metrics. The company is all for work/life balance as long as your life doesn't interfere with your work.

IF DH has to work in his "off" hours (which is, ya, all the time) he can work from home (thank goodness). Some nights he gets home and before he can even get into his comfy clothes, the blackberry buzzes and there's a call that he has to take. He spends most of his days in meetings so he spends his nights catching up on email and his weekends putting together presentations either to or for the VP. Oh ya, and he travels a lot. He was caught in that United computer glitch last Friday coming home from the east coast and he will be on another plane this Sunday for a two day meeting (Monday/Tuesday) and then flying back home on Wednesday. He travels at least a couple of times a month, but avoids it if he possibly can.

He's a senior manager responsible for running THREE departments and reports directly to the VP. Ya, I know; it sounds like a director's job and it is; but in this economy he'll never get the grade or compensation and even if they offered him the promotion for the job that he's already doing, I think he'd rather just go back to being senior manager over a single department. He is NOT a Type A personality and is not a workaholic AT ALL. Don't get me wrong, he is very loyal to the company and has a strong work ethic, but he has always taken the work/life balance idea pretty seriously and does have outside interests (golf, fishing, playing guitar, etc.).

He CAN'T WAIT to retire and was planning to so do next year, but that's up in the air now because of the uncertainty over Medicare. He HAS TO HAVE medical insurance (has been diagnosed with Crohn's) and he'll be 55 next year after the cut off (the cut off in Ryan's plan).

Oh well. It could be worse. We could be in debt up to our eyeballs and then have him get laid off, so I won't complain TOO LOUDLY.

[ihearyou2]

All I want to do is move up, I'm ridiculously ambitious and want to keep on pushing the limits as far as what I can do. I personally have not seen much correlation in more responsibility and longer hours. I see more correlation in more responsibility and working more intelligently which is where most of my peers fall on their face. They simply do not have the flexibility to be able to go at 100 and then slow down to 30 and then speed back up again to 60 depending on the time and the task. I have followed many of my old jobs and the people that took over for me usually did not last more then a year since the expectation based on what I did for the position is atypical and they couldn't meet the expectation. I have been in management for the last ten years and in medium size companies I'm usually #2 or #3 in the pecking order and in larger companies, the head of a department. I prefer the smaller-medium size company freedom and vibe.

This also gives me more assurance that I'm not going I'm a dead end alley in my career and have more opportunities as I get older and if I would lose my job. It is much more difficult after sitting at the same job at the same company for ten years to find a new one compared to someone who has had three-four jobs and varied experince at each location in that same time period. I would be scared to death if I would be in that situation.

[qofcc]

This also gives me more assurance that I'm not going I'm a dead end alley in my career and have more opportunities as I get older and if I would lose my job. It is much more difficult after sitting at the same job at the same company for ten years to find a new one compared to someone who has had three-four jobs and varied experince at each location in that same time period. I would be scared to death if I would be in that situation.

That works until you hit the ceiling. I know I've hit a ceiling. I started out doing administrative work, and worked my way up to Office Manager, Inventory Manager, then Analyst positions. With an AS that I finished after I reached the level I'm at now. And I have the background with different companies. I've had management titles (at a lower level) in 5 very different industries in large, medium & small companies. If I stayed with smaller companies I could probably have gone higher. And that's still a possibility if (God forbid) something happens to this job, but then there's the pay issue again. The smaller companies can't afford to pay what I'm making at a global company. And the fact that I'd be competing with all of the recent grads with MBAs.

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2011 17:21:44 GMT -5 ihearyou2 said:

All I want to do is move up, I'm ridiculously ambitious and want to keep on pushing the limits as far as what I can do. I personally have not seen much correlation in more responsibility and longer hours. I see more correlation in more responsibility and working more intelligently which is where most of my peers fall on their face. They simply do not have the flexibility to be able to go at 100 and then slow down to 30 and then speed back up again to 60 depending on the time and the task. I have followed many of my old jobs and the people that took over for me usually did not last more then a year since the expectation based on what I did for the position is atypical and they couldn't meet the expectation. I have been in management for the last ten years and in medium size companies I'm usually #2 or #3 in the pecking order and in larger companies, the head of a department. I prefer the smaller-medium size company freedom and vibe.

This also gives me more assurance that I'm not going I'm a dead end alley in my career and have more opportunities as I get older and if I would lose my job. It is much more difficult after sitting at the same job at the same company for ten years to find a new one compared to someone who has had three-four jobs and varied experince at each location in that same time period. I would be scared to death if I would be in that situation.

Efficiency will only get you so far. On the lower rungs below management, you can "work smarter' simply by knowing your way around a computer. In our office, the younger workers routinely handle way more volume than older workers cause they can navigate around systems faster.

Once you get into management, there's no way to efficiently work through meetings. What is typical with managers is they spend so much time compiling reports, preparing presentations, and going to meetings, that it leaves little time for actual work.